Backhand 1357

[NoseDownKing]

Going into the power pocket you are pulling your elbow down and into your body/hip (shoulder going ER and upward) collapsing the power pocket, instead of going elbow up and out (shoulder going IR and swing forward) swinging disc into bigger/deeper power pocket with later and greater elbow extension/radial arc. Note how when you come inward into the power pocket your disc edge closest to your body goes wing up, instead of wing down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aADjcR_ZtUw&t=342s

Do you think my bad arm action might be caused by my bad shift or lack of it? Do you notice, that I'm never really bracing on my front foot? The outside edge of my foot is airborn. Maybe fixing that would fix the arm action too.

https://youtu.be/1ZOQX_rH1IQ

Here I'm really trying to get the brace down, but the foot still in some insane way is able to not be grounded/braced. What is causing my inability to simply just brace?

 

[NoseDownKing]

Going into the power pocket you are pulling your elbow down and into your body/hip (shoulder going ER and upward) collapsing the power pocket, instead of going elbow up and out (shoulder going IR and swing forward) swinging disc into bigger/deeper power pocket with later and greater elbow extension/radial arc. Note how when you come inward into the power pocket your disc edge closest to your body goes wing up, instead of wing down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aADjcR_ZtUw&t=342s

Do you think my bad arm action might be caused by my bad shift or lack of it? Do you notice, that I'm never really bracing on my front foot? The outside edge of my foot is airborn. Maybe fixing that would fix the arm action too.

https://youtu.be/1ZOQX_rH1IQ

Here I'm really trying to get the brace down, but the foot still in some insane way is able to not be grounded/braced. The foot wiggles around right after I "plant" it. What is causing my inability to simply just brace?

 

[sidewinder22]

Point your toes down/plantar flexed, striding/landing into the plant.

 

[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/QudtoOaeOBs

I tried keeping the foot plantar flexed and also adding a very subtle hop. Front foot stills doesn't ever manage to get grounded. Looks like it might be, because I bend my front leg too much. Is this correct? If so, then what is the reason why my fron leg wants to bend coming into the plant? Or is it more of a matter of simply resisting the collapsing? Is my brace issue related to the fact that my head turns more back as I drive the disc forward? At least it looks like my head turns more back.

I think the 0 brace issue is really the cause of my terrible arm action

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, your rear leg action is not moving correctly. Your rear heel continues dropping while leaving ground, instead of rising. Also looks like your rear knee extends instead of bends. Really should be more like walking moving off the rear leg, push foot so heel rises and knee bends. Ewalk, swivel stairs, swivel chair, ride the bull.

 

[NoseDownKing]

I think my form is now a lot better than before. Not sure if there's something else critical, that's leaking power

 

[NoseDownKing]

Looks the same as my last post, but I tried to sequence my reachback better. I think it got better? My rear leg is slamming i to my front leg, which was a sign of something but I forgot what and I can't seem to find the post lol.



This kid here is Rasmus (who played in EO third round lead card today). He throws 200 meters (670' ish) give or take a few. His form seems to be pretty much perfect. Also noticed his rear leg doesn't slam into his front leg.

 

[Brychanus]

Looks the same as my last post, but I tried to sequence my reachback better. I think it got better? My rear leg is slamming i to my front leg, which was a sign of something but I forgot what and I can't seem to find the post lol.



This kid here is Rasmus (who played in EO third round lead card today). He throws 200 meters (670' ish) give or take a few. His form seems to be pretty much perfect. Also noticed his rear leg doesn't slam into his front leg.

That was looking better to me overall. I'll let the big guy take a swing, but just a hunch - looks like you might be getting hung up somewhere in the East-West direction a bit jammed up in the shift/slightly behind and not fully "on top" of the plant leg when you swing. Notice how your follow through takes you back away from the target.

Rasmus reminds me a lot of Kuoksa, including how he ends heading into the follow through. I do wonder if we're going to start seeing more of that style. It's clearly effective from a raw speed perspective, not sure about any other implications.

 

[NoseDownKing]

That was looking better to me overall. I'll let the big guy take a swing, but just a hunch - looks like you might be getting hung up somewhere in the East-West direction a bit jammed up in the shift/slightly behind and not fully "on top" of the plant leg when you swing. Notice how your follow through takes you back away from the target.

Rasmus reminds me a lot of Kuoksa, including how he ends heading into the follow through. I do wonder if we're going to start seeing more of that style. It's clearly effective from a raw speed perspective, not sure about any other implications.

Yeah I think I agree. It seems like my rear knee slams into my front knee, because I don't quite shift into balance. So my rear knee has too shoot forward, because I have to balance myself being too far behind. If the rear knee stayed more back, I would fall right back.

 

[Metronomi]

Rasmus reminds me a lot of Kuoksa, including how he ends heading into the follow through. I do wonder if we're going to start seeing more of that style. It's clearly effective from a raw speed perspective, not sure about any other implications.

Good catch. I heard that Rasmus has specifically tried to copy Kuoksas form.

 

[Brychanus]

Yeah I think I agree. It seems like my rear knee slams into my front knee, because I don't quite shift into balance. So my rear knee has too shoot forward, because I have to balance myself being too far behind. If the rear knee stayed more back, I would fall right back.

I think you are getting off your rear foot (mechanically) on average better than you used to, but I do think you can keep optimizing something in the X-step. Hoping SW weighs in because this is advanced and I don't want to too many cooks it. Just always rooting for you.

Good catch. I heard that Rasmus has specifically tried to copy Kuoksas form.

It definitely shows. I was talking to a European up and comer and I think we're going to see more of that style emerging in Europe.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Trying to somehow figure out how to throw from the front leg. The shift is definitely off. It really doesn't look like I'm balanced on the front leg here.

 

[Brychanus]

Trying to somehow figure out how to throw from the front leg. The shift is definitely off. It really doesn't look like I'm balanced on the front leg here.

I think you have reverted back to swiveling/rotating the hips parallel to the ground like you used to. It happens to lots of people, apparently.

Your rear hip is slipping out of leverage going back, then again the front hip is out of leverage way ahead of your plant knee when you shift to plant.

I recall you working on this in the elevated hershyzer stair drill. I might reinforce that move a bit, maybe some of the turbo Encabulator moves.

I also am wondering what will happen if you throw/show a standstill more like Wiggins. Get a nice long backswing and allow yourself to swing low through your center of gravity. Take the shift as lateral as you possibly can because right now it's too rotational. Try to make it feel like the rear foot is "pushing off a dock" and rolling in and you shift forward. Try to land as "on top" of the plant leg as you can.

David Wiggins Jr. Step Throw on Make a GIF

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makeagif.com

 

[sidewinder22]

Your front hip is leaking forward past your foot in the setup.

 

[navel]

You should be swinging inside your posture and brace. (If the disc golf throw didn't have a rotational part to it this would be much easier to see in the swing, but it's there.)

A lot of people miss this really easy part, when they try to overpower, overspeed or over-reach etc. Or they just can't seem to find the right dynamic balance.

Try this:

1. Stand straight up and down, laterally to the target, with your feet an knees wider than your shoulders. It should feel like a wiiiide dead lift stance if that rings a bell with you. Bend your knees a bit, feeling a good powerful connection to the ground.

2. Now reach back with both the knees and the shoulders like you normally would. Everything turning away from target automatically when you do. Don't force the turn. Don't lean. Keep the balance and connection with the ground.
At all times the shoulders should be contained centered in the "box" that's made by a line going from the ground through the knee - straight up to the sky - and another line thtough the other knee in the same way. (Much like the picture posted by sw22 above, but going through the knees instead.)
The knees should also be contained in the box made up by the feet.

3. Now slowly swing accelerated forward. Keep the centered-shoulder-feel between the knees. At no time should the front shoulder cross the knee before the follow through. Watch any slow-mo, any pro.

---

Compare to yourself and how you tend to get up over your front knee really early before the hit. Also check the back knee and it's position compared to your back shoulder.

I think this would lead to a balanced break through for you. With an understanding of how to use the ground to swing for effortless power.

 

[Brychanus]

^don't think you'll necessarily have this problem, NDK, but Olympic lifting came to mind. If/when you do what Navel said make sure you don't accidentally get trapped in a power stance. Feet should be able to roll back and forth easily when you turn back like in Swivel Stairs or Swivel Chair.

 

[NoseDownKing]

The striking resemblance in the finish. A shame I can't do this for my DG backhand. Maybe the best way for me to get this is to some how try to transfer the feels from hockey to DG. I've kind of tried it before, but stopped after not trusting that it would work.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Trying to fix my flat swing/shoulders. When I think of the main difference between a hockey slapper and DG, it's the usage of gravity. In a slapper I'm dropping/flalling on my stick to load/bend it, which then unloads with a lot of force. My whole body is tilted and working with gravity in order to achieve this.



Here's me swinging a kettlebell as I don't have access to throwing or shooting pucks right now. My body seems to be pretty tilted and working with gravity here?



I've put this video up here a few times I think, but it's relevant again. It's me throwing 4 years ago after I watched SW22's tilted twirl star burst video. Back then it clicked for me and I was throwing like 140 feet further than before, with what felt like 0 EFFORT. All I was focusing on was doing a pendulum/tilted twirl with my arm/disc and the disc just flew over 500 feet with literally 0 effort. The whole swing just felt long and slow, like it shouldn't be flying anywhere. It was crazy, but I suddenly lost that feeling and have never gotten it back since. I'm trying my best to get that feeling back.

 

[sidewinder22]

Don't slide your rear foot with the kettlebell like that. Rear foot/heel should only move up/down while toes remain in place.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Focused on not letting my rear foot slide. I like this pendulum feeling, because it feels almost identical to when I got it 4 years ago with a disc. I feel like I can just go back to the field and get that feeling to work with a disc again.