Backhand 1357

[Brychanus]

Focused on not letting my rear foot slide. I like this pendulum feeling, because it feels almost identical to when I got it 4 years ago with a disc. I feel like I can just go back to the field and get that feeling to work with a disc again.

The leverage looks a little better but still a little slippy. I have done a lot of lever, kettlebell, and sledge swings/throws at this point and still learn things kinesthetically - I think in your backswing, you are not balanced fully onto the rear leg.

Watch how SW ends up with his plant toe pointed into the ground with his heel all the way up starting 1:31 here. I still find it very helpful to let the backswing wrap me alllll the way back like that with light levers or a disc to feel the coil and balance "on top'' of the rear leg.


Regardless of the size of the swing arc, that's the action you want. When you bring it back to kettlebells or big hammers etc the size of the move of the heels can depend on the swing arc size, width of stance but you should be able to get that combo of firm leverage into tthe ground each way, and a smooth roll of the feet each way. As we know, easier said than done

 

[NoseDownKing]

Back with more regular form posting. Again back at fixing my plant/brace/shift issue. It's kind of hard to see, but it still looks like I'm not really planting properly. It's no matter how hard I try, my foot/heel doesn't want to plant fully or all the way. It's obviously not about how hard I try, but I'm still not sure why my body doesn't allow me to just plant. It must be some how related with how I'm swinging my pelvis back and forth, or lack of it. My rear leg also looks wrong, so it could be rooted more to that.

 

[sidewinder22]

Note how Simon's right femur/pelvis is turned further back and driving further targetward while left leg steps behind further targetward and less impeded by frontside/pelvis.

 

[Brychanus]

Note how Simon's right femur/pelvis is turned further back and driving further targetward while left leg steps behind further targetward and less impeded by frontside/pelvis.

View attachment 318167

As you both know I got stuck on this for months. For me I think it had something to do with (1) wanting to keep my eyes on the target, which would (and still does to an extent) pull my whole posture too open too early/out of sequence and (2) failing to connect the pump with the legs. I have a suggestion.

TL;DR: In the end it's basically just "do more battering ram in your pump."

NDK, I started to make more progress with this recently returning to something closer to the "cradle" pump like you have. I'll break down what is working for me and try to show it.

I've been using Battering Ram kinetics in my setup and focused on letting the backswing help feel like it pulls my front leg more closed/femur back as I started my move forward. I realized I could also search for better backswing depth and posture because suddenly my front hip wasn't blocking the range of motion. Here's a shot a session or two into working on it. This swing isn't perfect but serves the current point.



Notice (left to right; SW has me standing taller than you which is now clearly working better for my body, so just focus on the actions I'm emphasizing):
- I am balanced on the front leg when I do the baby elbow pump.
- (1) As my elbow pump comes back braced against my rear leg, then (2) the front leg/hip/knee/pelvis is coming back with it. The femur and front knee come back away from the target with the little "walk." If you don't find the connection between the upper and lower body in this part like Battering Ram, you are probably forcing something!
- As pressure loads on the front foot, I'm relaxed so my body doesn't open that hip (so it more naturally internally rotates). Notice this is letting me get more of my mAss leading me into the plant without forcing it. Difference between me and the Ram is part camera angle and part just staying more closed off with the pump.



Simon is doing this but it's not always easy to see when he uses a tiny pump. Look closely



Slowed/powered down with pump:

https://proxy.imagearchive.com/000/00091c1122eb18a29a3bec75bda782b9.gif

This was super annoying to fix but IMO worth it. Effort went down/peak distance went up and I started to have more consistent control of landing in the plant and my release angles. Now I can tell right away if my front hip isn't coming back naturally per above because the old way feels like crap. IMHO it is important to "abort" the swing immediately if it doesn't happen correctly, then try again. After ~3 weeks I almost don't need to pay attention to it anymore, but it's now part of my pre-shot routine since it's been a weak point in my throws.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Sorry guys I just noticed as I was uploading my next video, that I forgot to reply anything. But here I am trying to fix my pelvis/right leg issue:


I somehow throw myself over the top, which I think is why my foot doesn't plant. It's just now a matter of not throwing myself over the top and/or figuring out why I throw myself over the top.

 

[Brychanus]

Sorry guys I just noticed as I was uploading my next video, that I forgot to reply anything. But here I am trying to fix my pelvis/right leg issue:


I somehow throw myself over the top, which I think is why my foot doesn't plant. It's just now a matter of not throwing myself over the top and/or figuring out why I throw myself over the top.

I'm sorry man, I may have given you a bad/unclear coaching point.

I think you are trying to force your front leg to internally rotate. What I was trying to convey instead is that you want to let the ram pump close off your whole posture in rhythm with that pump. So it's more about the body swinging back, which gives the appearance of the leading knee and hip coming back with it. I think it's easier to see in Feldberg since his whole form is so stretched out:


I think if you force it like you are there, it tends to make the body need to either lean back or swing over the top to maintain some sense of balance. When it's functioning better you'll get into the plant very quick with low stress.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks like you are in more quad dominant postion with rear leg more bent at the knee while your rear hip/spine/torso is extended. Note how your rear femur and spine are closer to an "L" shape, while Eagle is more Pacman "<" shape.

Eagle is more upright on rear leg, stretching hammy/glute, less knee bend while hinged deeper into rear hip with spine/torso tilted back(forward compression) over rear femur.

You have lost the top of your pressure cooker as Shawn Clement would say in TIlted Spiral 2, meanwhile Eagle keeps his chest more compressed forward over the hip and swing.

You are also moving the disc/door frame around quite a bit in the backswing and moving your upper body away from your rear hip going into the heel plant. Note how Eagle's upper body/shoulder is still hinged/loaded back behind the rear hip all the way into heel plant.

 

[Brychanus]

^NDK, i'm not sure if this will help/generalize for you, but I have always found it easier to deal with some of the above with a more diagonal shift.

I think it's because it's easier to feel what is happening in the north/south direction as well as the east/west direction in the same move.

Even if your x-step shift stays longer along the ground like Eagle's it might help to mess around with that a bit.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Been busy with school this week, but got out to throw yesterday. I was still trying to tweak my body right leg during the x-step and also trying to keep my rear leg more straight.



Clearly I don't know what I'm doing, because it's pretty awful.

1. Heel never plants
2. Completely bizarre head movement during the swing. I start to turn my head facing further back once I start my downswing?

1+2. I think these two things are symptoms of my still completely messed up balance or something. It's super weird because I feel like I physically cannot plant my foot fully nor can I avoid turning my head further back during the swing. I don't know how that's possible, but it must be some freak balance issue, that completely prevents me from planting. Because I can literally feel like I'm dropping from a vertical rear leg down hard onto the ground, but the foot never actually plants.

Maybe something helpful:

If I'm standing in my livingroom and just doing half dryswings and shifting my weight back and forth, but not really rotating back and forth, it feels very easy and natural. But, when I do more of a full dryswing, obviously including a full turn, it really doesn't feel natural. The main issue is buried withing how I balance myself during the time I turn back to the backswing.

Long post...

 

[sidewinder22]

Video elephant walk from behind tee. I think you are doing similar to Melonhusk.

1. You are leading your step/walk with your foot reaching out ahead of your upright spine, instead of your upper body falling forward and then foot catching up. Note how my lead shoulder is leaning down and out over my knee. This will probably feel over the top to you - one leg drill. You are walking like SC demos the wrong way.

2. Your backswing is late/rear knee in the way because how you are walking/stepping/striding. Note how my rear knee/hip/shoulder has cleared back out of the way for backswing to swing straight back.
View attachment 318944
View attachment 318943

 

[NoseDownKing]

I recorded myself doing elephant walk throws from behind and front:

Front:
Back:

The glaring issue of my inward front knee is still there. I try my hardest to make it not swing in like that, but it feels impossible. Even in very slow speeds it's very noticable. It's a very bizarre thing and I just can't figure out why it happens. Like, you would think it would be extremely difficult to force someone in the same position I get into with my knee. I don't understand how does a body even learn to do what mine does.

I must be doing something terribly wrong somewhere else, that's causing my knee to forcibly swing inwards. I highly doubt the fix is to just resist it harder.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Actually, I think it might be just due to the way my hips move. When my front leg plants, my front hip sinks down and stays stuck behind the front leg, instead of rising and smoothly moving onto the front leg.

The hip sinking downwards is what forces my front knee to forcibly bend inwards.

 

[sidewinder22]

Definitely walking funny(extending up) and taking long strides.

Note in the first 3 left frames how my backswing centers on the rear foot, my rear shoulder barely moves while I've swung my chest around almost 180 degrees. Don't be afraid to let the forward swing pull/open you all the way up to target, swing the arm/disc all the way to the finish like the start of Open to Closed Drill.

I put the yellow horizontal line on about the belt buckle/pelvis, note how your pelvis rises while you stride into frame 2, while mine remains relatively same height like walking normal. Also note how much more over your toes are and your rear hip loses hip depth while I'm maintaining rear hip depth longer.

At release you can note the difference in spine posture extension vs flexion. Note in finish how your head continues moving west into the swing path, while my head pivots around more eastward away from the swing path and still centered on front foot.

https://i.imgur.com/fo10LILh.jpg

 

[NoseDownKing]

Is this better? Balance on the front leg looks flawed. My front knee looks like it's too much above my heel, instead of further forward.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks better in general. Still a bit APT. Your last step is much further north/targetward than mine.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Focused on a shorter stride here. Not sure if that really changed anything other than the stride length, obviously.

 

[sidewinder22]

Make that backswing heavy enough to pull your right foot(and shoulder) into the next step. Your right foot is beating your backwing and getting in the way of it.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Tried to swing my arm heavier here. Looks a bit better maybe? My front foot slid here, because the grass was pretty wet. Maybe lacking in forward shift here compared to you? But not sure

 

[sidewinder22]

Looking better.

1. Your head is very down and too far over toes, instead of neutral and stacked over foot. My chin is more up/nuetral, resisting against the heavy swing.

2. Your hand/disc is swinging around, instead of swinging back more inline. My disc just pivots around my wrist. Fixing your head might fix this.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Got some video of me throwing normal. Not throwing hard here though.

There's definitely something off with my balance, because my head is turning weirdly again. After I start my forward swing, my head starts turning slightly further back before following forward. But my head is definitely showing signs of something