I signed up for a DGCR account just to weigh in on this and rant a little bit as I believe some things are being left out or overlooked. I have been tracking this since it started publicly with that first post about the bloom announcement and I just wanted to throw out a few thoughts. First of all let me just say I live in the area, am a season pass holder at beaver ranch and was a foothill flyer tag holder for one year (last year) but didn't play a ton with them, just a couple of matches throughout the season. The people I met were very friendly and welcoming and overall a great bunch of disc golfers. However, I am definitely on the side of supporting beaver ranch as I think the foothill flyers approach and handling of this situation is just wrong, namely encouraging their members to post bad reviews because they couldn't get their tournament sorted seems inappropriate to me. Trying to get a course shut down and taken away from the general public because they are upset with management or the board or whoever they are claiming is the root of everything… I saw that someone had posted that long post from a founding flyer explaining the situation in detail but I don't believe anyone posted the second post from that guy where he explains that some information had not been made present to him, here is a snippet from it, it's on their page if you want to read the whole thing,
"He did suggest that he spoke with Ben Ray about the possibility of reducing the $10,000 am prize requirement and the cost of $10/player round to $10/player, period. The latter would have reduced the burden of cost to FFDGC and/or participants by a grand total of around $800, if I have my math correct. This is information that I was not aware of and I want to set the record straight. Ben did confirm these details were mentioned but nothing was ever set or settled. I do feel a bit as though Brad got caught up in this and took a backseat approach to Tom O's and Jill D's leadership. The vast majority of my blame falls on the Beaver Ranch Board Leadership team,"
Couple of things that I get from reading this, 1- Sounds like beaver ranch owner was working with them and trying to make it work, they got rid of the guaranteed set prize requirement, and they drastically reduced the player fee. I'm not sure where he comes up with $800 in savings, by my count, lets say it is 150 players ( I heard maybe 200 possibly more but lets stick with 150 for arguments sake...) 150 players x $10/day = 1500 x 3 days of tournament = 4,500. Reading that post we find out that beaver ranch owner offered to change that to a one time 10 dollar charge = 1500.
4500-1500 = reduced cost of 3,000 dollars to the flyers/players (800???) plus we don't know what the reduced charge for the prizes were but we do know that they reduced the overall cost by well over 3000 dollars when accounting for this (more if they were having more than 150 players). secondly, it is clear that Ben had this information, did not communicate it to anyone, but still chose to post a announcement that very obviously was intended to harm beaver ranch. This sounds like something personal to me, we can't know for sure but to me it sounds like some sort of a personal beef and then he or they or who knows who, tried to post fairly misleading information to incite their club against the owner/course. Thirdly, I don't know why they are blaming the beaver ranch board and expressing so much anger at them for charging them a 1500 dollar rental fee? The building is directly opposite the entrance to the course and its not like they were going to be able to rent it out that weekend to the general public when the parking lot and park is slam full of players, spectators, volunteers etc. I think they usually rent it out for weddings..
I recall reading that the flyers didn't want to use the building but from the board's perspective I understand their request for compensation as they are losing the ability to rent it out, and also I vaguely recall from last year that the flyers utilized the building for players and providing food or party or something one evening during a glow round.. I would think they would have been able to find a good use for it if being required to rent it anyway.
Lastly, numerous posts from the flyers are touting their awesome penchant for volunteer work and when offered the chance to do 8 hours of volunteer work with 25 people on the course they claim to maintain they are appalled? A chance to spruce up the course before THEIR tournament and they say $7.50 is too little and they have already put time in in the past for free. Free labor in the past is fine but paid labor to get their tournament sured up is outlandish to entertain? Makes no sense to me, it was a way to not have to pay any money to rent the facility and it would have helped the course, again a course that it very clearly states on their FB that they maintain. To be honest it seems like the flyers were the ones who were somewhat unwilling to actually negotiate and find a way to make the tournament happen. It seems like it was either their way or the highway, which I imagine is tough to work with from a negotiation standpoint.
Another side note, I own a small business/store in Denver and my take on the prize money is this: even though they are doing x amount in prizes (lets say the 10 grand even though we can assume it was something less) and that prize money will be used to purchase stuff through the shop the owner still must have to preemptively purchase the inventory and items that the prize winners will pick up anyway so its not like they are really getting 10,000 or whatever that actual number is. Maybe 40 percent margins best case? I don't know what that value really is, but my point is it has to be only a percentage of that number that will translate to profit. The rest is just overhead until the prizes are actually claimed. Anyway, many of the flyers posts that I have seen appear to be trying to paint the picture like Beaver ranch is asking for ungodly amounts of money but I just don't see it..
Another couple of random things that I read in these posts that I wanted to speak my mind on: and let me first say I play at beaver A LOT and I have played there since around 2007 or 2008, some years more than others: one member was saying that flyers don't receive discounts? I'm not sure where he is getting that information from? by my account they get discounts on day passes and season passes. Every time I've been there they have offered that, even recently.. I even saw replies on google reviews from Beaver Ranch saying something about offering to sell tournament tee shirts for the flyers if they wanted regardless of this current situation. The fees / discounts are even on their DGCR course review page. It also says the pins are always short position which is misleading. They change every week, and I know for a fact after playing a morning round on Monday that the owner is the one who is moving them. Him and one of the shop guys that I always see there. Additionally I have seen him once repairing a broken tee pad sign and replacing brooms for ones that had been vandalized at some point last year. I see him playing there pretty frequently as well. Also, on my most recent trip I saw that some new counters were built for the front of the shop and it looked like they were spreading fresh wood chips out in the front area. They even threw up a suggestion box where you can request pin placements or submit general course suggestions. Thats a new thing that I don't recall ever seeing in previous years. I can't speak to much more than those few observations of him but from them I feel that I can make the assumption that he presumably cares about the course and experience.
I'm not sure where the hostility towards management is coming from, even that founding member suggests they are more upset with the beaver ranch board which is completely separate from the course so I'm not sure of their logic of harming the course to get back at those people... affect their bottom line by removing a source of income? and then the entire community park will suffer? seems malicious and harmful to the community. Best I can tell the only way they were going to have the tournament there is if it was of absolutely no cost to them which seems kind of unreasonable to me. I realize their point of view of being the ones to get the course up and running, and on an individual level I say thank you a thousand times over, but the past is the past and unless it was stated that they were allowed free tournaments for life I am not sure the reasoning or their current stance..
Last thought I have is on that basket swap… after digging around through their facebook page I saw that Ben the tournament director fellow issued a reply to a comment from someone on their fb asking if the flyers can remove the baskets where he said
"No, ffdgc gifted the baskets to the park. So as long as there is a disc golf course those baskets stay"
So, in my opinion, one could reasonably assume that prior to this, they must have assumed the course was going to be there forever and they already effectively gave the baskets away with no real intention of taking them back. It strikes me like more of a benign gesture on the part of beaver ranch to offer that to them just to feel like they are getting something in place of money. Sign over something to us that you already gave to us and you can do the tournament without owing money… This is just speculation on my part but that is how I piece that together…Again, to me it seems like there must be some behind the scenes quarrels that are the real culprit for of all of this, and more importantly a few key individual's frustrations are coming out in discreet ways under the guise of finger pointing for unsuccessful negotiations.
I usually don't get into the fray of social media and such but this just grabbed my attention over the last few days and I finally saw enough things that really irked me as a member of the conifer community that I felt the need to speak out some and this seemed like a good place to do so. It just is bothersome to me to see such a large scale negative knee jerk reaction when clearly all of us are missing pieces of the puzzle. I am going to continue to take everyone I know to beaver ranch as, in my opinion, it is one of the best courses in the country, and I believe the best public course in Colorado. Too, I think it is worth mentioning, all these posts make it seem like this guy just bought the course a month ago and made drastic changes. I can't say when exactly but I know he has been associated with the course since at least last season. O.k. done ranting, I feel better, shout out once more to DGCR for moderating so professionally. You guys rock. Here's hoping the course and club and park can find common ground and move forward together amicably in the true spirit of disc golf.
