First form check!

[Brychanus]

I think SW's most recent points are connected. Head has been a longtime issue for me and I think it's better in sledge tosses but still there a little bit too.

I was walking it out and somehow I think I got my head trapped between my feet again when I shift forward to land while trying to learn to get off the rear foot better. When I focus too much on my feet, I tend to "leave my head behind" somewhere between moving off the drive leg and landing to plant. Related somehow to it turning back and forward too early.

I can tell the head and feet are related to each other because I can "roll in" off the rear foot better and land more stable on the front leg more quickly and more on my toes when the head balance is better in small or medium shifts/momentum.

This also used to be an issue sometimes in dance, so I will add some of your (SW's) head balance drills to my downtime to see if I can work on it. I need to figure out how to get it to work in bigger/more momentous shifts actually throwing.

Then I can focus on allowing my head to more naturally help my feet move in sledges and throws in next throwing session.

 

[Kennets]

Jaani got a video about head posture (I think?).

I think you're overcomplicating a "simple" task and yet a "hard-to-break" task.

Stop looking at the target mid-throw dummy (is what I'm saying to myself all the time). You're missing out on effortless power.

Look at Simons spine alignment and head position. Compare them to your throws.

Relax the melon.

 

[Brychanus]

Jaani got a video about head posture (I think?).

I think you're overcomplicating a "simple" task and yet a "hard-to-break" task.

Stop looking at the target mid-throw dummy (is what I'm saying to myself all the time). You're missing out on effortless power.

Look at Simons spine alignment and head position. Compare them to your throws.

Relax the melon.

Believe me, I am game for any simple way to solve the problem that all of us see/have seen right in front of us. It has been working well when I'm standing still. When my feet are moving sideways for force/taking head/eyes off the goal I am always struggling :-(

 

[Brychanus]

Jaani got a video about head posture (I think?).

I think you're overcomplicating a "simple" task and yet a "hard-to-break" task.

Stop looking at the target mid-throw dummy (is what I'm saying to myself all the time). You're missing out on effortless power.

Look at Simons spine alignment and head position. Compare them to your throws.

Relax the melon.

I'm going to try something a little unusual and just focus only on getting a little more on my toes & balance like a dancer thru the move next session. It has been a while since I tried that/lots of changes since then.

 

[Brychanus]

I infrequently get significant changes in the feeling of my entire swing. Today felt incredible.

For lurkers, I had trouble figuring out what the hell was going on, but I could see something very wrong in my tosses compared to SW. I knew that the longer/heavier hammer would make the swing plane a bit more vertical to the ground, but something was wrong in the release and I was getting "ragdolled" by the hammer:

SW told me I was probably still out of the correct tilted axis and my head was outside my posture when swinging the sledge in the X-step.

He shared this Clement gem. For some reason, the quote ""If they stopped turning, the thing would wrap around your neck"! immediately caught my attention this time, and made me realize something:



My head was counterbalancing the sledge swings out of posture from the start of my setup with the sledge. That also prevented me from moving on the right tilted axis the whole way. It also blocked me from getting most of the centrifugal effect like the 360/720 or like the golfer. That was what I was starting to get in 360/720, but I lost most of the centrifugal effect when I started moving more laterally. Big mistake. I now understand why and how you need to get a significant amount of effortless power out of this centrifigual effect.

Today I got up early and got slangin' one day earlier than planned on purpose so that I wasn't as tempted to overdo it. Knew I needed to slow down to try to nail this.

I kept visualizing something like this guy's swing plane (Trout's is nasty) but lefty once I setup with my sledge. And I think it started to #$%@ing work.


Sledge - but more centrifugal
Did a couple standstills then X-sledge here. I wasn't getting great shift/footing yet, but I just kept focusing on trying to find that centrifugal part of the swing. I think I can keep improving this and that the release trajectory/"contact" point is not quite ideal. Sledge tends be hard to keep dry with the morning dew so I might consider a glove or something. I suspect if I keep improving the balance/head stacking it may start rushing ahead less.




Throws - but more centrifugal
I honestly teared up a little after the first salvo. There are problems to fix, but something about the entire swing felt completely different. I have never felt so effortless. So snappy. So "free swinging". So free of mind. More in balance rather than fighting for balance.

First two throws were at like 60% and felt amazing. Last three I was trying to find balance moving up closer to 80% but w/ new tilt I could tell I had new distance line opportunities available so I played with that a bit.

I see I'm still not totally in balance/got the head fully in posture + phase/not leading with my toes etc. enough yet.

 

[sidewinder22]

I infrequently get significant changes in the feeling of my entire swing. Today felt incredible.

For lurkers, I had trouble figuring out what the hell was going on, but I could see something very wrong in my tosses compared to SW. I knew that the longer/heavier hammer would make the swing plane a bit more vertical to the ground, but something was wrong in the release and I was getting "ragdolled" by the hammer:
View attachment 314441
SW told me I was probably still out of the correct tilted axis and my head was outside my posture when swinging the sledge in the X-step.

He shared this Clement gem. For some reason, the quote ""If they stopped turning, the thing would wrap around your neck"! immediately caught my attention this time, and made me realize something:
View attachment 314437View attachment 314438View attachment 314439


My head was counterbalancing the sledge swings out of posture from the start of my setup with the sledge. That also prevented me from moving on the right tilted axis the whole way. It also blocked me from getting most of the centrifugal effect like the 360/720 or like the golfer. That was what I was starting to get in 360/720, but I lost most of the centrifugal effect when I started moving more laterally. Big mistake. I now understand why and how you need to get a significant amount of effortless power out of this centrifigual effect.

IMO you worded that weird. Your head/posture wasn't counterbalancing the sledge. SC demonstrates your unstacked position at 4m20s.

 

[Brychanus]

IMO you worded that weird. Your head/posture wasn't counterbalancing the sledge. SC demonstrates your unstacked position at 4m20s.

Yeah, it bothered me after I wrote it too, thanks.

Maybe I can also better understand "ragdolling" as basically any case where the head is not appropriately stacked and balanced over the feet like a dancer, resulting in the swing pulling a player around off axis (?). That is the same thing as saying that when you are in balance on axis, you are swinging the hammer rather than the hammer is swinging you. That's also why changing the hammer swing axis started to feel way more centrifugal & lower effort while still trying to move sideways.

I was thinking today that this is sometimes also directly related to bracing improperly or too hard or jamming. For example, on the worst sledge swings, it was like the plant leg needed to abruptly land harder/more sawed off to find any leverage it could. When the swing axis and head stacking on axis improves, it's much easier to brace and pivot fluidly. I wasn't doing great there yet, but it was a noticeable difference in effort and on my plant leg. The plant leg was still doing work, but it was much less of a "jerk" on the better throws.

I'm taking the weekend off for some recovery time. Looking at my sledge swings I think I can keep getting the hammer release point and posture to get the centrifugal force a bit more "sideways." I think maybe my lack of toe lead when I throw is part being off the ideal balance and part habit/shying away to prevent pain or protect my knees (which remains a vicious circle). The head being out of sync is still looking to me like it's closely related to my stacking in general.

 

[Brychanus]

Need maybe ~2 more weeks for this to stabilize but a few field notes. I seem to keep getting a lot of rain right before my planned field days so I slowed down to do what I could.

1. Smarter sledge: I'm spending more time on standstill sledges since it's easier to work on optimal swing plane/balance (of course). It's also easier to find the "swivel chair" action through the feet/toe lead into plant. I noticed today that I can also get a better pump & heave against the ground than last time. Then I try to work it into sledge-X. I seem to get the swing itself better inside my posture once I get pumping, but for some reason I think I still initially grab the hammer with my watermelon/head too West over it. So I'll fix that next time.





2. Smarter setup & throws: In my setup, I now try to make my initial stance spacing and balance feel as much as possible as the best sledge swings. Seemed to help balance and get parts of my body out of the way of each other & swing more freely. Brace feels a little more sturdy and was pivoting a little more freely. In the first throw here you can see I'm also getting more sensitive to the first move off the rear leg due to the sledge work (~7s). Forgive the glove, was particularly slick today. Head still looks related to balance and the rest to me. Doesn't look obvious on camera but I was getting a tiny bit more toe lead on average today. Sledge throws look somewhat better with respect to this issue than disc throws.

I think the very last one here looked the closest to what we're looking for in terms of mitigating the East-West knee funk. I can definitely feel more effortless torque against the ground when they are closest to that one. I was a little annoyed at that one because I could feel my rear foot slip and that it was just a bit off lol.



Rome still ain't built in a day. Keeping on it.

 

[Brychanus]

Plucked a few more for study where the balance was trending better when my starting stance was still "Sledgey" but more compact.

I think there's finally hope for my legs in the long run - the throws below maybe look closer to what my body wants to do for easy power. Still a little off there. I think unfortunately my head is definitely still rushing ahead looking for the target somewhat independent of the balance/spoiling balance a bit.

Next field session I think I'll keep working on the sledgehammer swing plane, and try to focus more on my toe lead & head helping the balance & centrifugal part of the swing. Then bring it into the throws. I could try the Clement attention to the slash thru point trick again if that fails.

First here is same as last throw from previous post. Added two more after that.


Link here is what I'm visualizing before next field session:

Repository of Cool Images

www.dgcoursereview.com

 

[sidewinder22]

Sledge posture looks a bit better. Still same issues as disc...

1. Knees are too bendy, and feet too flat. Plantar flexion doesn't work/transfer force, if your knees are bent. Just stand normal and test the difference between plantar flexing your feet with knees bent vs extended but not locked out. You should notice a massive difference between them where knees extended moves your whole body/transmits force thru your center.

2. You never really setup on the front leg, your rear foot remains flat every practice swing. And during the throws you are stuck on both feet. Note how my rear heel is up which allows the rest of my body to effortlessly pivot/swivel thru.

3. Not sure what you are referencing in the images thread the link just takes me to the end.

 

[Brychanus]

Sledge posture looks a bit better. Still same issues as disc...

1. Knees are too bendy, and feet too flat. Plantar flexion doesn't work/transfer force, if your knees are bent. Just stand normal and test the difference between plantar flexing your feet with knees bent vs extended but not locked out. You should notice a massive difference between them where knees extended moves your whole body/transmits force thru your center.

2. You never really setup on the front leg, your rear foot remains flat every practice swing. And during the throws you are stuck on both feet. Note how my rear heel is up which allows the rest of my body to effortlessly pivot/swivel thru.

3. Not sure what you are referencing in the images thread the link just takes me to the end.

View attachment 314680

1. When I do this knees more extended but not locked focused on plantar flexion, it feels like all my weight gets onto my front foot much faster. Clearly more leverage in both legs. It also seems like the rear knee/swing want to function more like yours walking it out. In addition I think in general my whole leg chain is still a little wimpy/shying away/not fully resisting when I move at swing speed. So I can go back to setup with knees straighter but not locked out for sledge and disc and work on moving my weight fully back and forth focused on plantar flexion before I start the shot. Going to feel weird with the sledge lol.

2. Seems like 1 helps me get balanced better fully on top and follow through more like you in practice swings. Let's see if it looks better too when I practice swing and throw tomorrow.

3. It was the last link in that thread with the nice views on upper bodies and the head's orientation entering release!

 

[Brychanus]

Did some one arm hammer swings to see if it could help continue to fix this junk.

 

[Kennets]

Waiting for you, to just yeet that hammer through the wall

 

[Brychanus]

Waiting for you, to just yeet that hammer through the wall

Lol thats why I'm eager to be outside these days. Too restricted inside and I don't want to have to replaster.

 

[Brychanus]

1. Setup more upright/knees less bent. There is obviously more leverage from my calves/plantar flexion. It goes away very quickly when I have a deeper bend at the knees. So I'm not going to bother trying to throw with more bend anymore now that I understand this better. I agree with Sidewinder that people like Kuoksa must have legs of steel to provide adequate leverage in that posture. If I can't get more low or lateral, then I can rely more on the centrifugal effect of faster rotation for power (lurkers: no, I am still not "trying" to rotate! Effect, not cause.).

2. Worked on pump/setup. This was clearly helping some parts.

3. Modified sledge to find better leverage/march in the swing. Could maybe try to get less knee bend, but I think I succeeded in getting the leverage/knees looking a bit better.


4. Disc throws unfortunately still have knee funk. I played a little with crow hops, and nudged some things around in the pump and stance. I think I succeeded in moving a little more laterally off the rear leg in some of them, but the knee pattern is usually the same. Of the things I tried, (1) pump tweaks and (2) feeling leverage off the rear foot like a crow hop gave me the most success. Getting more on top of front leg in pump and more lateral in the stride need to jive together.

A few slightly better ones below. It's occurring to me that I might never fully fix this and will just need to live with it. Or maybe some are trending the right way and I just need to push through it.

Last one ended up like a ballet finish position lol:





Taking the weekend off camping. Sadly no course nearby. I'll chop some firewood.

 

[sidewinder22]

You are moving your arm, while barely moving your feet/weight/shoulders and hugging yourself in the backswing.

 

[Brychanus]

Hm, that feels much more like sledge shifting all the way back now.

 

[Brychanus]

You are moving your arm, while barely moving your feet/weight/shoulders and hugging yourself in the backswing.

View attachment 314794

Worked exclusively on this today. Swing efficiency clearly went up on almost every swing.

What helped:
-standing taller/more natural in sledge swings,
-practice pumps integrate full weight shift/stacking over leg each way/more shoulder integrated into the swings before setting up the drive
-letting backswing feel more like Double Dragon going into Hershyzer off the rear leg/better crowhop to begin my drive.

Sledge, standing more natural and relaxed. These were flying farther more easily today.


Full practice pump sequence.


Some drives.

 

[Brychanus]

I think at this point I need to spend quite a bit of time fixing my head patience and balance regardless of whatever else is going on. It has felt bad and looked bad for a while now. I think I keep trying to make corrections in spite of my head, not with it, and it's $%#@ing up everything else.

I am going back to retraining "eyes with the disc" in the pendulum pump for now. Even when I was, you can see that my head wants to come off the disc and rush to the target as I got distracted by other intrusive swing thoughts or felt my balance changing.

When it was going better, I was swinging my shoulder out under my chin better, and I was getting my balance on top of my plant foot better. The snap was noticeably better. Once I started to land better balanced on the plant leg, I started extending more off the drive leg, telling me my balance wasn't right in the backswing. So I just slowed down a little and worked on it until I got tired. Continuing to work on fixing preshot routine/pumps.

Still being out of balance like a 1 year old is incredibly frustrating, but I'm apparently still stubborn enough to work on it until it's fixed. I can do it when I walk, run, throw hammers, dance, do drill moves, paddleboard, backfist or chop a punching bag, swing a golf club or flexbar, standstill, putt, one leg drill, and on and on. I just need to get it permanently into my swing, and maybe the way to help it along at this point is relax w/ eyes on the disc and let it happen when I throw. Rain or shine, drunken master mode.

 

[Brychanus]

I was looking at side of tee and immediately noticed my swing was looking pretty flat, and my front hip was not going into IR in the backswing.

So I worked on that today, which fixed a couple things. Visualizing baby McBeth motion seems helpful for pump and balance.

My head and fundamental balance are not great. Still trying to find that dance-like balance both ways. My head is still usually learning opposite direction into the shot. Still always leaning funny in the backswing. Still not double-dragoning etc.

2x from side of tee then 1x rear.