First form check!

I'm not quick twitch, I'll tell you that much. lol

I'm 5'10 (generously, though a home life insurance physical right after I rolled out of bed one time measured me at 5'11 even lol) / 165 with a 6'3 wingspan. I've never been very naturally coordinated - just a reps-on-reps person. But even then - only *some* things really ever *clicked* without clear *deep* instruction. I got good hands on instruction with disc golf, not so much with some other things (I started running distance at age 5, but had to rebuild my form around age 27-29, because the YouTube era gave me a ton of info I never got, I ran pretty good placements in a weak D3 college conference with absolute shit form).

Nick mentioned Marty Peters above (aka Scott Stokely's skateboarding buddy, a giant with long arms) - he was also crucial for me, especially with getting my feet in position with the cross step, though I used a lot of resources. DGR having slow motion RealVideo format videos of top pros throwing in slow motion was super beneficial when I started, the grip page on DGR was super beneficial too.

Anyway... You talked about athletic decline and said Weissman apparently talks about it - so I am curious about that. My personal experience has been that my own failings in terms of technique, in terms of lack of coordination, has led to maintaining a lot of physical 'performances' as I've got older, by virtue of slowly figuring things out and compensating for age. Its been a real slow build because I just don't have a real strong natural mind-body connection.

One thing is for sure - the YouTube era has been a big benefit for me as I've got older.
Interesting - so you're very positive ape index, but don't really identify as quick twitch or coordinated. I wouldn't be surprised if hands on instruction from good people has a large effect when applied well. You also seem to have a passion and work ethic.

I think Weissman had replied to you here where he's talking about declines and compensation with age:

YouTube era spoils us for sure, and I'm very grateful I am "growing up" in it.
I will also add...

Yeah, putting the work in can't be replaced. Finding the sweet spot can apparently take a while/change with age and circumstance.

Kuoksa & injury: I can't say everything since some of it was in confidence, but I'm sure it will get increasingly public eventually - basically, the way Kuoksa moves is deceptively athletic (there are data on this and the guy is pretty impressive at face value in the gym). Young people are seeing his very extremely horizontally braced move (which we could suspect puts a much bigger draw on weaker muscles to stay dynamically stable and balanced). They try to copy it and focus on the "stop" of the brace, but their posture and balance suck and their bodies aren't in the condition to take the forces. They end up jamming ground forces into their leading hip and pelvis and create impact or repetitive fractures in the pelvis and lower spine. If it sounds pretty bad to you, that's because it is. Yikes.

Kuoksa/Jaani: I do not mind public critiques but I also believe in things like being cordial and discussing things in good faith. I'm increasingly becoming more careful as the space gets more crowded and is full of big personalities. I just care about the mechanics.

Peters/giant hyzerbombs/arm slots etc: honestly all sounds very similar to how Sidewinder tends to teach the shift mechanics and posture, or how Gibson is exaggerating "swinging upwards nose down" here. I personally find spike hyzers a lot of fun and usually can throw them farther than most amateurs I encounter even if they have good distance. Probably related.

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Arm "can't help it" - yes, I think that's there. One of the main ideas in Sidewinder's door frame drill. The thing just kind of "happens" once you foot starts to plant/resist the ground and carry through.

OAT/body English/ Peters "old school" tricks: I think I understand what you're saying there better than I did a few months ago (doing it reliably is another matter lmao). Comets are super sensitive to all that too I'm now finding with more options for body control. What most instruction in DG lacks IMHO is that the arm is rotating like a corkscrew the whole way through the move. People try to break it into these little parts but that's kind of not how arms work in most actions. You can change the details but how it winds up and unwinds as a "unit" apparently matters a lot. Gotta be careful with that at first if you're not used to it.

Basketball/body intuition - yes, I can think of one visible example of bballer who got the weight shift wrong, but the basic idea there is very clear. Watch Gibson's two handed motion in the second gif above. Looks like a medicine ball or basketball toss, don't it?
Claws or suctions - I like that.
I think I get the fascial/stretching concept implicitly now and I can clearly "feel" when I'm recruiting more "X-factor" vs. not. It is definitely something I wasn't doing before I learned from Sidewinder here, and is definitely something that has to happen across the whole body to throw well. Also the area of the most body adaptation I still need, probably. So hopefully spacing out my throwing again will allow better recovery cycles (and resisting the temptation of "pushing through" with ibuprofen or ice baths).
Something I forgot to mention, just popped into my head as I'm warming & stretching at the field right now...
Yes, I think finding little "hangers" for what things trigger good motions and memories are really important. The utility of standstills is very clear, though I do think transforming it into a move while feet are moving (x-step) adds novel challenges. I still have never regretted time on my standstills which is why I always am throwing some, and I'm always still noticing new things.

"It's all just a fancy walk at the end of the day." Yep. A challenging walk indeed, but a walk of some kind.

X-step/shuffle hop: I've gradually paid more attention to this. E.g., in Mcbeth, he tends to use more of a side shuffle hop on throws less than full power often (i.e., not just a shorter x-step, but an actual shuffle hop). I have physical issues in my rear leg that probably contributes for reasons I'll spare you, but I noticed that when I'm downtempoing now, my body naturally wants to do more of a side shuffle hop while learning the "criss cross x-step" sidewinder is getting me to do. The CoM ideally moves the "same" way in the side shuffle pattern, but the overall move is smaller and I can get vaguely different balance points in the side shuffle hop than a true X-step and control my pump in different ways. Then when I'm trying to throw for power I've got both more hop and more cross and more/full pump. SO over time I'm realizing for power drives, I have one "idealized" move I am trying to do over and over always trying to get longer and bigger. But since golf is a lot more variable, letting it naturally develop into "body English" has already been helping. I do wonder if on full power how much of it is flexibility and mobility and if one is a little harder on certain parts of the bodies than others. But I guess we now have X-stepping and shuffle hopping world champions, don't we? Interesting.

All i know is - i had to order a Comet. I expect fireworks and aces every time i throw.. lol
I am going to caution you to watch this classic video first if you haven't seen it/forgot it. Notice McBeth does not appear to throw Comets often (that I can recall) after that lmao. I remember at one point Michael Johansen was asked about grip and I think was referring to McBeth when he said something like "Comets behave very well when you don't grip the snot out of them" or something. I'm not criticizing the peak 1060 6x World Champion, just saying it's understandable if they're not quite everyone's jam out of the box lmao. Paul also tends to like to throw a lot of his control shots close to true flat and adapted his competition form to that, whereas I tend to like to throw everything more hyzer like Gibson whenever I can and especially when putting some gas on a Comet. Apparently they can also coast on nasty distance shallow anhyzers but you need very good control over them to get the effect, which I'm starting to work on.


Timestamp (4:53 and then 8:58). Paul describes the Comet as "a little touchy right now for me."






Then just last year he threw one again talking about whether he had learned to throw it (2:43), looked nice, but he said he felt like everything he tried overlapped with things he already has:

 
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Interesting - so you're very positive ape index, but don't really identify as quick twitch or coordinated. I wouldn't be surprised if hands on instruction from good people has a large effect when applied well. You also seem to have a passion and work ethic.

I think Weissman had replied to you here where he's talking about declines and compensation with age:

YouTube era spoils us for sure, and I'm very grateful I am "growing up" in it.
Yeah. I saw that, I'll check out those videos tonight probably.

One thing he noted in his responses to others over in that thread, that I found interesting and think may apply to my context as a golfer: he puts a lot of emphasis on the idea of a dominant hand/side. I grew up ambidextrous, due to spending the age of 2 to 3 pretty much with a cast on my dominant arm. So learning little stuff like throwing a normal ball, or holding a pencil, or eating all happened lefty for me. I am right hand dominant, though, so once the cast was removed I picked up other skills right my right hand.

If being ambidextrous is any sort of advantage in learning to throw a disc - I, for example, grew up pitching and playing the outfield and first base left handed, but because of the ease of throwing across the diamond I played 2nd/3rd/short right handed. I would also pitch right handed occasionally. But since I didn't learn to throw a football until I was much older, I only ever threw a football right handed.

So that might have really helped cut into my learning curve? I hadn't really thought about it until reading his posts in the other thread.
 
Yeah. I saw that, I'll check out those videos tonight probably.

One thing he noted in his responses to others over in that thread, that I found interesting and think may apply to my context as a golfer: he puts a lot of emphasis on the idea of a dominant hand/side. I grew up ambidextrous, due to spending the age of 2 to 3 pretty much with a cast on my dominant arm. So learning little stuff like throwing a normal ball, or holding a pencil, or eating all happened lefty for me. I am right hand dominant, though, so once the cast was removed I picked up other skills right my right hand.

If being ambidextrous is any sort of advantage in learning to throw a disc - I, for example, grew up pitching and playing the outfield and first base left handed, but because of the ease of throwing across the diamond I played 2nd/3rd/short right handed. I would also pitch right handed occasionally. But since I didn't learn to throw a football until I was much older, I only ever threw a football right handed.

So that might have really helped cut into my learning curve? I hadn't really thought about it until reading his posts in the other thread.
Yeah, I believe in dominance issues, and crossed relationships. E.g., I'm usually right eye dominant but for whatever reason my dominance drifted to my left eye when throwing backhand, which contributes to my head rushing ahead somewhat.

I also found a lot of kinetic connections to boxing, but I'm used to throwing heavy crosses and uppercuts right-handed and left-footed planting. Incidentally I think that helped me figure out my overhand throws once I swung a lot of clubs in the Fall with the same right-handed-left-footed sequence, but converting it to forehand is tougher for me.

Oddly, I did used to use a right-handed spinning backfist off the right plant foot to good effect (like Sidewinder's Shaolin Lumberjack), which is more like a disc golf RHBH, but I couldn't really connect it to the backhand. I suspect part of it was I found the grip on discs and "hit point" so weird, but that's gotten significantly better now. I might try throwing standstills like a spinning backfist if I remember to in the field next time, I'm curious what will happen now.
 
@Brychanus

Disc review incoming!

Ive played a few rounds with the Comet in the bag and let me tell you this..

Its a love/hate relationship already. My god it feels awful in the hand. If i thought my Roc felt off, a Comet is like if a Roc and that driver from innova had a baby. It kinda feels like a beach frisbee and im surprised its throwable..

But even though it feels like something straight outta disc golf hell, it flies AMAZING! If thrown with some zip behind it, I get a nice straight flip up hyzer, with a gentle fade in the end. Really a useful tool in those narrow fairways!

Not sure if I'm gonna keep it in the bag, time will tell!

Sorry for the offtopic comment 😂
 
@Brychanus

Disc review incoming!

Ive played a few rounds with the Comet in the bag and let me tell you this..

Its a love/hate relationship already. My god it feels awful in the hand. If i thought my Roc felt off, a Comet is like if a Roc and that driver from innova had a baby. It kinda feels like a beach frisbee and im surprised its throwable..

But even though it feels like something straight outta disc golf hell, it flies AMAZING! If thrown with some zip behind it, I get a nice straight flip up hyzer, with a gentle fade in the end. Really a useful tool in those narrow fairways!

Not sure if I'm gonna keep it in the bag, time will tell!

Sorry for the offtopic comment 😂
Do you power grip it, or fan grip it? The Comet feels weirdest with a power grip. Bonus of some variation on a fan grip is you get more stability on the angle on it, which opens up a lot more shots to you!
 
Do you power grip it, or fan grip it? The Comet feels weirdest with a power grip. Bonus of some variation on a fan grip is you get more stability on the angle on it, which opens up a lot more shots to you!
I usually throw with a modified fan grip (ish), i rarely power grip, unless im throwing a driver with a wide rim. Tbh, I haven't found a grip that feels great in the hand, lol.

It's a great disc though, that can be manipulated into different flight, just gotta get used to the feel. It's great for a loooong turnover flick FH.
 
@Brychanus

Disc review incoming!

Ive played a few rounds with the Comet in the bag and let me tell you this..

Its a love/hate relationship already. My god it feels awful in the hand. If i thought my Roc felt off, a Comet is like if a Roc and that driver from innova had a baby. It kinda feels like a beach frisbee and im surprised its throwable..

But even though it feels like something straight outta disc golf hell, it flies AMAZING! If thrown with some zip behind it, I get a nice straight flip up hyzer, with a gentle fade in the end. Really a useful tool in those narrow fairways!

Not sure if I'm gonna keep it in the bag, time will tell!

Sorry for the offtopic comment 😂
Do you power grip it, or fan grip it? The Comet feels weirdest with a power grip. Bonus of some variation on a fan grip is you get more stability on the angle on it, which opens up a lot more shots to you!

I think maybe it feels natural in my hand due to its shape fitting well into my meatpaws, throwing and swinging hammers which are kind of round like the nose of a Comet, lots of field reps, and definitely grip has something to do with it.

I use a version of the Climo fork grip most of the time for Comets and otherwise, but that definitely took some getting used to at first. I like how I can get pretty good leverage on it when powering up and still decent flight plate control. I never used a true fan grip before but just started tinkering with that for the touchier shorter shots. I don't like to power grip Comets either, it just doesn't quite ever feel like I can get it to leverage the way I want it to.

I also practiced drives with an Ultrastar before my current form work so compared to that the Comet feels like a distance driver lmao.

I don't know why but I had more "love" than "hate" early on for Comets and the love only becomes stronger with practice. I guess the only thing I miss about my Buzzz is the reliably stable/slightly OS end of flight that I sometimes find in Comets, but then again if I throw a Comet well I can still get a hyzer shot to do most of the same work. Right now I bag 4 comets in different stabilities then just jump right up from my most stable Comet to my Gator for truly OS shots and that's working out ok. Also something weird/new is definitely happening in my swing because I'm getting new effects in the turning/spin phase I didn't used to and it's changing the possible shot shapes. I haven't measured it but I think there's a little more speed+spin than I had before I started grinding the most recent form changes. Also a little more control over what my wrist and grip are doing in general, I think. Iiiiiinteresting.

I've also gradually been throwing short range flicks with it during rounds which has been pretty cool and is helping me smooth a few things out quickly.
 
I usually throw with a modified fan grip (ish), i rarely power grip, unless im throwing a driver with a wide rim. Tbh, I haven't found a grip that feels great in the hand, lol.

It's a great disc though, that can be manipulated into different flight, just gotta get used to the feel. It's great for a loooong turnover flick FH.

I still find it interesting that grip (along with everything else) can "drift" shot to shot. In the field I'll get in a rhythm and have a streak of really good ones, then a few duds.

In a round I'll often find the same - several shots in a row really syncing up, then a few duds. So right now I'm mostly trying to focus on making the duds less likely while working on the form tweaks. Throwing more on true anhyzer whenever it makes sense seems to be helping me get more control over things overall but it's taking time.
 
I use a version of the Climo fork grip most of the time for Comets and otherwise, but that definitely took some getting used to at first. I like how I can get pretty good leverage on it when powering up and still decent flight plate control. I never used a true fan grip before but just started tinkering with that for the touchier shorter shots. I don't like to power grip Comets either, it just doesn't quite ever feel like I can get it to leverage the way I want it to.
Would you happen to have a link to the old YouTube video of that grip? That's the one I use for my drivers, and I keep trying to explain it to people - but without the video handy it's difficult to explain if they're not in front of me, and I can't seem to find it.

My Comet grip is something of a hybrid between that and a fan - the base hand shape is from that grip, but I vary the pinky pressure, and whether the ring finger is stacked on it depending on the needs of the shot, and rather than using the index finger as the pivot point, it's loose on the rim like a putter, and the actual pivot point instead is the big knuckle on my middle finger (I pinch the disc between that and my thumb at the hit).

By varying my finger and wrist positions, I can achieve just about any nose angle without much adjustment, and then I just vary the pull, depending on whether I need a flat/hyzer shot, or an anhyzer.
 
Would you happen to have a link to the old YouTube video of that grip? That's the one I use for my drivers, and I keep trying to explain it to people - but without the video handy it's difficult to explain if they're not in front of me, and I can't seem to find it.

My Comet grip is something of a hybrid between that and a fan - the base hand shape is from that grip, but I vary the pinky pressure, and whether the ring finger is stacked on it depending on the needs of the shot, and rather than using the index finger as the pivot point, it's loose on the rim like a putter, and the actual pivot point instead is the big knuckle on my middle finger (I pinch the disc between that and my thumb at the hit).

By varying my finger and wrist positions, I can achieve just about any nose angle without much adjustment, and then I just vary the pull, depending on whether I need a flat/hyzer shot, or an anhyzer.
This gave me a fun assignment - I'm not sure if this is the one you were thinking of but might be it, I forgot how good it is (or more likely didn't physically understand it well enough at the time):



What's interesting to me is Climo is defining it as a "fork" grip because of its function and not just where the fingers etc. are. He understood how grips worked in a lot of contexts to deliver control and power. I loved his tendon discussion in that video.

My grip is similar to what they're showing between 1:22 and 1:40 with ring finger slightly stacked over pinky and middle stacked slightly over ring, just adjusted for my relatively short fingers. When I'm throwing my best it does feel very similar to working a literal fork, or writing with a pen, or turning a screwdriver, or swinging a hammer.

@Skamanda appreciate what you're saying about the grip variations there. I haven't tried messing with the pivot point other than changes in emphasis on the index finger. Can you say more about the pinky pressure changes? I wasn't feeling confident to mess with it but more recently I have more grip "fluency" so I like learning about these things. Basically I'm trying to learn what I can do with Comets especially in upshot range and it seems like there's a lot of versatility I could learn.

I was also playing with one of the group vets the past couple weekends and he was sharing some wrist action tips for anhyzer upshots that I immediately recognized as what Sidewinder likes to teach as "windmilling" action or part of some of the Ekstrom tips (which also involve posture control) - I have always struggled with it for drives but was finding I could do it for upshot distances somewhat better than before on anhyzer, which was neat. My rollers usually suck but the only two times I've reached a real ~500' on flat ground in no wind in an open field were accidental power backhand rollers doing something like that (which was shocking at the time), so I'm playing with that a little more again.
 
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This gave me a fun assignment - I'm not sure if this is the one you were thinking of but might be it, I forgot how good it is (or more likely didn't physically understand it well enough at the time):



What's interesting to me is Climo is defining it as a "fork" grip because of its function and not just where the fingers etc. are. He understood how grips worked in a lot of contexts to deliver control and power. I loved his tendon discussion in that video.

My grip is similar to what they're showing between 1:22 and 1:40 with ring finger slightly stacked over pinky and middle stacked slightly over ring, just adjusted for my relatively short fingers. When I'm throwing my best it does feel very similar to working a literal fork, or writing with a pen, or turning a screwdriver, or swinging a hammer.

@Skamanda appreciate what you're saying about the grip variations there. I haven't tried messing with the pivot point other than changes in emphasis on the index finger. Can you say more about the pinky pressure changes? I wasn't feeling confident to mess with it but more recently I have more grip "fluency" so I like learning about these things. Basically I'm trying to learn what I can do with Comets especially in upshot range and it seems like there's a lot of versatility I could learn.

I was also playing with one of the group vets the past couple weekends and he was sharing some wrist action tips for anhyzer upshots that I immediately recognized as what Sidewinder likes to teach as "windmilling" action or part of some of the Ekstrom tips (which also involve posture control) - I have always struggled with it for drives but was finding I could do it for upshot distances somewhat better than before on anhyzer, which was neat. My rollers usually suck but the only two times I've reached a real ~500' on flat ground in no wind in an open field were accidental power backhand rollers doing something like that (which was shocking at the time), so I'm playing with that a little more again.

Yes! That's the video, thanks! I haven't seen that since the DGR days...

So the pinky pressure thing - I honestly do it more with putters than Comets, because usually if I throw a Comet I'm putting it downrange pretty far. Think of how with a fan grip, your pinky is pressed into the rim of the disc. When you're throwing a fan grip for power, you're pressing it in pretty firmly. When I want to vary the power, or force a different angle, I'll either move the ring finger closer to (for more power) or further away (for less). When I really want to get on it I'll leave the index and middle in my fan grip, but stack the ring and pinky like in the Climo video above. When I want to be very gentle, I'll even back the pinky off the rim as well (mostly just for upshots, or shots I want to fly like I deliberately underthrew it). When you get used to those adjustments, you can also vary the ring and index finger positions, as well as the thumb, to adjust the angle of the disc in your grip, and the amount of spin on it. That's how I get different shot shapes at different distances with the Comet.

Take these shots for example - they're all with domey 168g Comets, and I'm just varying the pinky and thumb placement for the most part.

This standstill, I'm barely holding the pinky on the rim, and the ring finger is loose. You can see the thumb is basically on the stripe of the stamp. The shot goes straight, then turns, and stays turned. Nose angle is fairly neutral.


This is the same disc, and roughly the same thumb placement (a bit more towards the center of the disc, which contributes to the nose angle), with a run up and my pinky and ring finger tighter in. Nose angle is more up. The shot shape is pretty similar, I'm just throwing it for distance because I'm at the Toboggan.


Same disc, with a run up and thumb inward of the stripe for nose up, but the pinky loose so when it turns, it doesn't turn all the way over.


Different plastic, same era and weight of Comet. Thumb is inboard of the stripe for mega nose up, pinky is in tight because I want the spin to flip it hard, for a long pushing hyzer.


Same disc as the pushing hyzer, same pinky pressure because it's a long shot and I want the power, but the thumb is way out towards the edge, to force the nose down a bit. It's on an anhyzer angle, but without the spin and nose angle this same disc fades out as it gets out of sight behind the initial trees. Instead, this carried all the way to the right and landed a couple feet from C1.
Amanda Branch on Instagram: "This is my favorite hole on this course, and this is EXACTLY why. The #discraftcomet makes this shot look eeeeasy 😎 #discgolf #discgolfgirls #discgolfwomen #transdiscgolfer #transathlete #transwomenbelonginsport #transathletesbelonginsport #throwproud"
 
Apparently the forum limits posts to 5 pieces of "Media", which is why that last one is just a link - but it's an Instagram reel, and it's probably the most fun shot of the group! 😁

Edit: here it is-
 
I still find it interesting that grip (along with everything else) can "drift" shot to shot. In the field I'll get in a rhythm and have a streak of really good ones, then a few duds.

In a round I'll often find the same - several shots in a row really syncing up, then a few duds. So right now I'm mostly trying to focus on making the duds less likely while working on the form tweaks. Throwing more on true anhyzer whenever it makes sense seems to be helping me get more control over things overall but it's taking time.

The Comet actually fits my hand better, I had to switch around with my grip a lot to find one that I found suitable. I can't even remember which one that is right now lol.

I can understand why you people like it, it seems like it can glide forever, when thrown correct. It's a little more sensitive to nose angle conpares. To my Roc, but I'll keep it in the bag!
 
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Had no time for dedicated form work, but I have continued to work on the most recent stuff when I drill or play casual rounds. I've mostly been focusing on how my weight/mAss moves around step to step in the x-step.

I saw this video come through GG's Facebook reels and really liked it because it was clear example of a near-flat release, and his motion still clearly reveals the shift mechanics I first felt a little while back, which immediately also made them easier for me to see in form footage and manipulate.

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I like this shot specifically because it's a good example of him applying the same concepts you see in his monstrous hyzer distance shots but in a plane much closer to this fella.
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It continues to be fairly clear (to me) that the way GG's "flat" shots work are in effect like that hammer thrower in terms of how he uses his shift and body mass to whip/rip the shot through on that plane. When he stands more "upright" for a flatter shot, look for the way he tosses his mAss more East in the step before the X-step, which means it comes back slightly West in the x-step, and then East again as his mass and posture lead the arm into the swing plane. You cannot "force" this posture or spine angle and get the same effect - it only works relative to the mAss toss pattern in the shift.

In the step before the X-step he's already transitioning his posture to set up the swing plane in that manner, which feels more natural to me than alternatives. Notice that his shot is still actually a baby hyzer here. But the "hint" is that his spine is nearly vertical in transition, setting up the hammer throw plane before he shifts to plant back to throw that baby hyzer. The posture into the plant is just preserving the "royal coil" or "X-factor" part of the move, which I still think a two-armed hammer thrower tends to emphasize differently with the hammer mass, length, and posture needed for that task. GG is still also using the mass of his arm in a shallow hyzer plane after setting up and elongating the posture in the "door frame" part of the move.

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The follow through on this particular shot is also interesting because he shifts slightly back toward the camera, which is what you would predict if his overall move is countering the action like a hammer throw on a similar plane.

Works pretty well for me when I'm moving freely so far, taking some time to make it fully replicable. The main disadvantage is that my rear leg/hip doesn't have the stability GG's does, so I can't "hang" on it in transition as well or as long, so coming over it a little more vertically and quickly than even he does seems to help there as long as I maintain some balance...

Visualizing Doss is still helping to get me more athletic on my feet before I start the shot.
 

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^This is already so promising I'm going to start working on it in my precious few rounds and drills. Today I found it surprisingly natural/low thinking. Took maybe 50 shots today.

Fitness
First, doing plyos for a few weeks and especially hops is already helping with my flat-footedness. Anecdotally, the 133%(!) increase in stiffness/ability to quick-transfer force I read about this week seems like a real thing (in the paragraph above the one I linked there it seems to suggest that the main vehicle of force transmission increase is thru the Achilles, which is another reason to take it slow & steady at my age). Even if my mass hangs low due to my overall size, I was able to move with more and quicker plantar flexion automatically. Doing a hop series @StupendousMan recommended upon warmup was extremely helpful and is a new part of the routine. I'm not expecting any magical power increases, but it definitely is setting me up for more success overall. Thanks dude. I also think my legs were doing their thing pretty well until maybe the last 10 shots before I lost some potential juice and even just walking the course was more comfortable.

Form
While I was walking to the discs I was thinking about why this works (other than an already hard-coached & hard-fought somewhat functional form), so I'll journal that a bit. I had new shot shapes available today, and perhaps 30' more on my Yeti Pro throws and 50' more on my Comets at the same effort on my 200'-275' holes. I think noticing a couple things in the transition move helped me connect a couple dots. Turns out I still have a lot to learn from GG.

This throw is still the case study. The current problem I'm working on is how to capture most of what I've learned on hyzer and take it into shallow or even true anhyzer angles:
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1. This is a deceptive and important part of the move. GG's step is pretty small off the drive foot and slightly E, foreshadowing the transition W into the "prep step" before the X-step. For me, making this step a bit smaller gave my body & booty a lot of feedback and made it more likely to keep balance through the whole move. Incidentally it allows me to get some leverage off my gimpy rear leg to set up the entire move without relying on it too much. So I basically put 50% of my focus there and kept repeating it. I realized that I could keep it very small and still get a huge RoM for the shot starting in step 3.

2. I like this because GG is letting his posture keep him aggressive toward the target, but this stride is coming back slightly W with his mass. Before, I had more trouble figuring how to get my body do this at all - I think it was because I had poor posture control + I was very insensitive to just how much mass can move in the E-W direction in a "zig zag x-step". I knew it was never just where the legs go or about "two lanes" but didn't have the feel for it. Now, I'm getting more certain that this is how a big percentage of his overall power is generated in addition to the more obvious horizontal-vertical stuff.

3. This is where the "trick" starts. GG is still trending W, but there has been a slightly redirection N, which is also loading up that plant leg. This is really just an effect of his plant leg starting to resist the ground redirecting the trajectory from step (2). Today I also realized that there is a huge opportunity for postural shot control here, and in some ways this is really where his move begins. It's starting to get him closed off, but his slick posture adjustment to more upright in transition moving off the plant leg can be manipulated to achieve any desired angle in the shot. I had a lot of fun playing with this. Moreover, this was the first time my body felt like it could do a version of his pump (fairly vertical but a little more pendular) without disconnecting me from my rear side. I could control two components of the move for the first time: (a) this postural component and (b) if desired, a little "body english" through the arm on the disc near the release point to add an additional effect on the release angle. I had the weird perception that I had a little more time because I had a little more balance and RoM to work with.

4. The part I got most excited about in the last post and it worked even better today. Tossing the mAss back in this posture mode feels pretty cool and naturally sets up a force/counterforce against the arm with a decent amount of clearance/body getting out of the way heading into the plant. Doing the more pendular version of his pump in this context seemed to work just fine.

5. This is where my rear leg will probably prohibit me for ever getting quite as well loaded off the rear side, but with my more "Espen-esque" version, I could get it working okay, and we had long ago established that more upright postures help me get what stability I can anyway. I found messing with the degree of supinating backswing a little distracting while minding my overall mass powering the shot more so I might get back to that later. I can tell some of my shots are getting a full hit/snap but others are collapsing a little. However, all of my shots felt like they had more room to breathe relative to my body and were getting a lot out of it on top of gravity and accumulated momentum, which was nice.

6. Aww yeah #GravityHammerTime- this is the second layer of deception in GG's "flat" shot. This is still basically using gravity, counterforce, and leverage off the rear leg to elongate against the disc. Then at the plant you just let the magic happen if you spent a lot of time messing with doorframes. The posture adjustment back in 3 already did most of the work for controlling the angle and trajectory. Here is where I'm also confident that you can get a little more "English" on it at the wrist if desired.

7. Even if this shot was at 0 degrees, I can guarantee there would be nothing "flat" about it dynamically. When I was hitting them well it was subjectively very cool because I could feel the same thing I feel on hyzer but in the adjusted plane(s) of motion. My guess is that I'll still always throw farther more easily on hyzer due to simple physics, but I was getting "free" "hyzer-esque" power near flat or slight anny and threw an accidental roller. I suddenly realized how I'd thrown exactly two 500' rollers in my life in a field session and couldn't figure it out again - it felt just like that.

With this body discovery, I was able to throw at first slightly sloppy turnovers that didn't come back and then gradually neat coasting turnovers that got a full, gentle flight out of my Comet, or a slight flex out again from my Yeti Aviar. I also got a few weird shots that look like they were getting late lift even if my line was somewhat low - probably part illusion but a neat effect. I left after I parked the Comet on that line on the last hole to leave on a high note that was slightly spoiled because then I rushed to get to the car and missed the 8' putt lmao.

GG, thank you from all people shaped like me!

Attire matters
1. It was in the 20sF. I switched to athletic/elastic form-fitting cold weather layers - I could move pretty well, maintain good internal temperature/a slight sweat by the end, and the little bit of elasticity across the layers kind of reminded me to stay athletic.
2. Shoes: I bought new trail shoes that let me get a little more easily on the balls of my feet and actually removed my rear foot orthotic- the problem with it for BH is that it compensates for my issue when walking, but I noticed that it also encourages me to be very heavy in my heel/flat-footed because it is designed for a heel strike walking forward. If I threw more FHs I might notice it. Ah well.

Notes for next time:
1. My added baseline power means I can "club down" to Aviars again, especially since I can take advantage of their slight overstability on near-to-flat release angles. The comets are for mid/high power hyzer flips or turnovers or the magic touchy comet shots.
2. My brain was more sensitive to the difference between full upright near-flat vs my ~30 degree power hyzer plane - intermediate planes will probably take more time to feel out. Should try comparing 30 degree, near-flat, and ~15 degree next time.
3. Suddenly wondering what might happen if I try a lever arm out of this again once I'm fully automatic with the zig-zag.
 

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Morning round notes. Was pretty empty so I could mess around. I threw about 3 shots per tee. I still tend to lose a little gas/posture after around 40 shots consistently, but legs are functioning better up to that point. Messed around more in the ~15 degree hyzer range to try to get a feel for it:

1. Noticed a little tightness in my upper back after last time. I think I was extending my spine too much in transition, which is unnecessary and causes a bad force chain thru the spine. I managed to get more relaxed like GG and still pull off the move today. Seems ok & will see how I feel in the morning.

2. I tried to slow down the first steps & transition move as much as possible and still get a complete chain and good snap all the way through the hit. Was throwing slightly more efficient today.

3. I'm more in touch with "body English" on the Comets especially as I add speed (doubtless from hundreds or thousands more shots) than the Aviars. At ~15 degrees hyzer they are already turning over significantly for ~250'+ shots, and the new shot shape is definitely useable, especially if I also throw higher for higher speed shots. I think my power hyzerflips still probably need more like my natural ~30 degree hyzer for full flight. I did find it easier to throw the Aviars on shallow hyzer/near-flat today and they tend to like to stay fairly straight/resist turning unless I really torque it. Still figuring out

4. Tried the lever arm again and the potential for power is clearly there but it is not a way to ensure good aim right now lmao.

5. I think I should try messing with the amount of supinating backswing just a bit again after I'm comfortable with the above (except 4 lol). In standstills I realized I still have a little more access to clearance and internal torque if I focus on it. It doesn't need to be much larger to get the effect apparently.



Visual cues & what I can and cannot copy exactly from GG:
This is where we left off last time. I still tend to use this full pump at like 250'+ with slow discs because it still clearly helps get my momentum building and helps w/ aim, tempo, & backswing coil & load. Closer to 200' a more compact pump is working pretty nicely along w/ less RoM/shift - I can still take a lot of GG's cues there.
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This view was hard to find and helps me see just how superior GG's transition move really is and part of what I anatomically cannot achieve. Mine's functional enough with the Espen-esque variant - neutralizing the E-W instability from my remodeled left leg just means I'm a little more sawed off in that RoM if I don't want to spoil the internal torque at the rear hip and posture in transition. I still seem to be able to add power carried from momentum before the launch or tinkering with the tempo a bit. Anyway, don't wanna spoil what I've got by losing whatever leverage points my rear leg can manage.
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So still mostly working on getting used to this action/CoM toss in transition to control the shot angle and trajectory:
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Note before I forget:

friend's side of tee viewrevealed I still tend to have trouble keeping things intact on the rear side/head rushing ahead out of balance. Still a version of this fundamentally. and evident for a long time for me.

Happens with full pendulum pump - having trouble staying stable and shifting from behind/underneath off the drive leg.

A bit more windmill action in x-step seems to help everything work together so I'll switch to trying that for a bit. I noticed that moving in the direction loopghost used here but with a more GG-style windmill seems to work better and accelerates quicker, feels and functions more like my standstills when moving well. I still think he was swinging too "over the top" here relative to his brace and it should function more like a true dingle arm, but the overall drill still seems sound to me.

 
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I've also always utilized a more windmill like backswing, personally, acceleration feels does feel quicker. ( but could just be me lol )
 
I've also always utilized a more windmill like backswing, personally, acceleration feels does feel quicker. ( but could just be me lol )
It's definitely there in practice swings for me. It's a little hard to describe, but what seems like is happening drilling it out is that it seems to simultaneously let me freely "elevate" both my body and the backswing, but it also seems to keep me from trying to kind of force the move off the rear leg. I also seem more likely to let the rear side help assist the move forward into the shift & less likely to "shift from the front" too open too early. This also looks basically like what GG does, he just does it without the arm extended in the pump. SW pointed it out a while back and I had trouble doing this a couple years ago but it feels more natural now. Curious what will come out when I next throw lol.
 
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