Brychanus
* Ace Member *
What do you think actually distinguishes the anhyzer/hyzer difficulty or not compared to the OG form? I guess what I mean is whether you think there's a fundamentally new or different thing for you now in DD specifically at this moment.Regarding K9 Discs, hyzer plane, and similarities/ differences in DG form vs DD form.
After year in disc dog dialing in hyzer form, anhyzers felt awkward at first when I returned to disc golf.
So during my og form run, although I was known for the big hyzer shots, I could do the same equally with anhyzer, but more importantly, anhyzer's overall were just easy for me. I think a lot of it may have been with what you pointed out, balance and posture I think. I could throw discs like Z talons and Z predators and use them like a Teebird/ Leopard combo, but it was very natural for me manipulating the varying degrees of anhyzer releases depending what I needed the disc to do. Both discs, I would cycle 2-3 of them, and as I went down the discs, stability would vary, so the 3rd disc would would be slight hyzer release to flip to flat for example.
When I tested out my theory, I was proud to say, I was correct about that. So made me think, for anyhyzer (OS discs) tap back into more of my OG form style in a sense. Something I did notice was the fact even if someone could throw a strong big hyzer, they could not do the same with the anhyzer shot.
I never felt like I threw that hard or effortful at all, unless it was strategically done. But, after a year in disc dog, initially anyways, it felt a little different when throwing drivers especially, as far as mids, I guess I could say the Buzz could fall in that camp.
Hopefully, that rambling made some sense.
I guess one reason I'm trying to remain calm and carry on myself is that I know firsthand how easy it is to interpret the same visual stimulus in many different ways (I obviously make mistakes too). So I'm on the one hand sympathetic to the mistakes. I guess what I wish would happen less is when anyone gets too trenchant too quickly (me included). Or, if there really is a difference there, we can acknowledge we're doing different things and ask more questions. Just a personal approach I guess that keeps me from getting too hot too often (I hope).Regarding back-leg, yeah it was strange to me too, i view as 2 legs in the throw are required. But the big picture is that they misinterpret what they think they are seeing, and or, the increased effort of of the rear leg as something productive happening. But, just following laws locomotion / biomechanics, I could not just mentally go there at all. lol
I find it interesting too. Though I might say that you are still very much an exception and not a rule in throwers in DG. If ItInstIn will forgive one more pitching analogy, in disc golf terms, you're closer to that unicorn that gets shaped into a 100mph pitcher in the MLB than you are to the average person. Just to probe you a bit on this: what do you think the reasonable expectation for an adult learner getting into disc golf who is otherwise athletically average/body type with no extreme levers etc if psychology and poor training don't get in the way? E.g., if you had a crystal ball, where would you expect Robbie to top out?Totally random, but just watched a Robbie C push putt video while eating some meal prep at my desk. lol
So from following Robbie, he gets coaching online and in person occasionally from Mike Strauss, and I know he also starting working with Clint aka BlitzDg as of recent.
I find it strange, and no knock on Robbie at all, as active as he in DG ( full time as creator ) and obtaining coaching from someone like Mike- he still struggling to hit/sit at 400 ft of golf distance if I am not mistaken. Is it the coaching ( mike knows his stuff) or something we are not aware of holding him back from that potential?
From watching him throw on video over the last year or so, it seems like with in-person coaching / training that it would be an easy thing to get him to do based on physical form and understand of it. I am curious what you guys think about this ?
The biggest things that stand out holding him back are his, lack of shoulder coil depth, doesn't get shoulder extended creating the longer lever, and could also add more booty wipe/squat/hinge in regards to torque and lower body.
Am I crazy for thinking this ? lol
I wonder about all kinds of reasons probably that people get stuck at a ceiling (all of which I am interested in). Josh from Overthrow shared some data on this with me at some point but that's not necessarily the same as answering what the potential expectation is.
I do remember watching RC throw and thinking that it never really looked like he was getting the full commitment of the chain in the move and there is something very different in his arm kinetics compared to top throwers, but I haven't looked closer in a while.
I don't find it weird/off-base and welcome you joining the party!Probably off-topic (or maybe off-base), but for me this is what continuously trips me up when throwing backhand. In typical throwing motions, everything is driving to the target. The disc golf backhand kind of doesn't. It's either that the disc "stays in place" where the forward motion is creating coil or the player is moving their upper body back in the coil while their lower body is moving forward. The thrower then has to change their upper body direction to drive forward.
There's an aspect that is universal in that you don't (ever) throw off the back foot; the back foot drives you into the brace/plant. The "trick" is how to drive forward while coiling back. I think for some population, it's these counteracting forces that creates a lot of rounding and early pulling motions. You can see in forms like Eveliina Salonen and Dan Beto where there appears to be a split second "pause" in the backswing where the coil maxes out and the force goes from moving back to moving forward. Jake Hebenheimer tries to solve this with his "pre-coiled" run up.
Sorry for the weird ramble, but folks that try to draw too many parallels between, say, pitching motions and throwing backhand (including me!) might find different issues. I do notice in throwing balls backhanded, I don't really coil much, but it does help the arm portion of the throw quite a bit. It's really difficult to pick up even with a throwing sports background
On the learning/sports crossover: I still think it's a really weird motion in general for the reasons you mention and more. I also think the basic idea of generally taking your eyes off the target through such a large move with this weird quasi-rearward-facing-while-coiling-while-whipping-thru-a-cycle yada yada is prone to all kinds of failure points. I still also wonder if what's just plain harder for adult learns is 20, 30, 40+ years of mostly moving forward and using their eyes to do motor coordination/reach goals, throwing or otherwise. Sidewinder once suggested I close my eyes completely like Val Mandujano and it helped some things. But clearly I'm still at it for other issues otherwise lol. I responded very well to hammers but only via martial arts connection & others don't, etc. And I used to do a lot of spinning backfists that also very briefly take eyes of the target in the backhand direction but that also didn't just make everything work. Any new tool or crossover I use takes some time to figure out how to make it help rather than nothing or hurt.
On the ball specifically, I also do find the coil against the disc/flatter object functions kind of different than ball in a few ways that can be easily tripped up (personally). Leverage is different, end point hit/release mechanics are a bit different etc. My body kind of got the point of the coil from the ball very quickly but getting it into the disc was like an entirely different problem (for me).
Agree about force/counterforce and rounding. That's still what happens to me when I start trying to throw for distance when I haven't in a while (to say nothing of cleaning up the apex/angle control after that).
Hear hearEven coaches need coaches. I think we can observe and catalog all the ideal features of a good throw. Executing is a different story. For me, if I could get in my coaches body and feel his well over 400' throw, I could emulate that VERY quickly. We can't do that, so we can observe and describe, then try to execute what we've observed and described. Until we can execute that AND translate that into something we can feel and replicate (I can't watch myself in real time, after all), there's a long process of iteration to get there. Some people won't get there. There are plenty of coaches in MLB/NHL/NBA/NFL/etc. who have never (meaningfully/professionally) played the sport they coach
I hear ya - bump on my response/thought experiment above if you don't mind thinking about it/sharing experiences.My point was not b/c he is a coach having a coach, I did not mean for it to sound like that. I am big believer in coaches for a lot of things, even in my own life. I just meant he has had access to high level coaching, and still is, yet they have not been able to get him to tap into more distance yet.
I am curious what Mike Strauss was seeing and coaching him on, or what was he addressing. Now, he is also working with mike, but also Blitz he said.
My other point, was looking at this form, it seems like it should be an easy things to address from my point of view based on his current throw and strengths. Does that makes sense ?