[Other] Having few molds vs. having many

[DJBackhand]

A lot of the top pros in the sport seem to have very few molds. For example, Philo has a bunch of rocs all beat in to various levels of stability.

There have been a couple of reasons I've shied away from doing this kind of thing.

#1 It takes a while to beat in discs (though dx plastic probably won't take that long)
#2 I feel like it could be inconsistent. If a disc is understable, it could get flippy fairly fast.

Are these legitimate concerns? Would it be better to have a mold in various stages of wear, or get a few different molds to do various things?

Thanks

 

[Alexplz]

Ah, this old chestnut.

Personally, I loved the idea of choosing a few molds like Philo and other pros, and cycling to where I could cover every shot with the consistency of just being able to reach for a Roc or Teebird on 99% of shots. After all, What Would Kenny Do?

In practice though, it turns out I am impatient in DG as I am in life. Not only does it take forever (relatively speaking) to break in a stable mold to the point where I want it for real shot shaping in the woods, I feel like this approach is prone to some obnoxious pitfalls. You're buying more discs, assuming you're cycling base plastic. It's tough to get a disc to the sweet spot of stability, and then worry about blasting a tree full power or worse, losing the damn thing. Then you have to hurry up and beat in the rest of the discs ahead of it in the cycle to where they are -1 stability from where they were before you lost that sweet spot disc.

The other end of the spectrum is seeking discs that follow the exact flight you're looking for, and maybe even retire them out of the bag once their flight changes significantly past initial break in. This end of the spectrum sucks too, because unless you're throwing a lot of discraft, good luck replacing stuff with any consistency. Also, it's really tough to predict how a disc will fly and to fill just the right slot without testing it.

I have settled somewhere in the middle. I have some seasoned discs that I like just how they are, and if I lost one I have a plan to replace them with a new disc that is a little less heavy or in a less stable plastic off the shelf, or a disc ahead of it in a mini cycle. On the other hand, I throw a lot of different molds so I feel like my discs work for me, not the other way around.

 

[ODRB]

90% of my shots are with 4 molds, and I carry 3-5 of each. Destroyers, Orion LFs, Rocs, and Wizards. I like the familiarity of feel and flight, especially knowing how the flight will evolve as a disc seasons. Plus, headwind? Throw a more stable one and expect the same flight. Tailwind, throw a flippier one. And it’s easy to buy used discs that are already seasoned when you’re only looking for 4 molds. Cycling just isn’t the labor intensive process people assume it will be. Throw your discs. But used ones. Do fieldwork. Pay attention to their differences. Use them to your advantage.

Add to that core a few situational/utility molds that I usually carry in 1s and 2s (Firebirds, Roadrunners, Gazelles, and Harps) to fill little holes I’ve noticed over time for specific shots, situations, and types of courses.

So I’ll usually have 6-7 molds on any given day, but I’m expecting to make nearly every shot with one of 4. As this became my setup, I’ve seen massive improvements in consistency, strategy, and shotmaking.

 

[slowplastic]

Both ways are totally fine. With pro's they are limited to one brand because of sponsorship, and they play every day so they break in discs fast. It makes sense that their go-to discs get broken in, they replace with a new one, and a cycle automatically happens.

For the average person it may be a problem to break in discs. For me a Gstar Teebird, Star Teebird, and Champ Teebird all feel a bit different in my hand. What feels more different, a star and champ Teebird, or a C-line FD and champ Teebird? One pairing is different in shape but the other different in plastic. It's up to you which you prefer.

Personally if I can get a disc that flies like I want when new or broken in less than a few weeks, and holds that flight for a long time, that's what I'm getting. A broken in Teebird or Destroyer is the best flying thing out there, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't throw an FD or Trespass/Wraith/Shryke/whatever instead and be less upset if I lose it.

It totally depends on if it's practical for you to break in the discs or not. If the cycle happens then go with it, but if it is stressful then it's not worth it. So many good flying discs off the shelf are out there.

 

[ODRB]

^ good points.

I’ll add this one last thing. Cycling seems to work for some people, and plenty of people make the other way work just fine too. Most people I know who use very few molds didn’t start out that way. But, over time, they gravitated towards throwing the same discs over and over. And those discs broke in. So they added a fresh one. And so it went. Eventually, your core molds are covering shots that you used to use something else for. And some of those less thrown molds just end up in your basement. Instead of in your bag.

 

[F. Howl]

McBeth's last few ITBs have fluctuated between 10-13 different molds. Wysocki bags 15. The two highest rated pro's are hardly mold minimalists.

 

[jjmiller]

Personally, my forehand has always been significantly better than my backhand. My bag has forehand molds and backhand molds. When I started, all I needed was a Firebird and a putter, because nothing flew further than a putter with my 200' backhand. As my backhand has improved(and I've gotten addicted to buying discs), I've added mids, fairway drivers, and a few 9-11 speed drivers that I almost exclusively throw backhand. But my backhand is still a ways off from being strong enough to throw the same drivers that I forehand. If I could add another 50-100' on my backhand, I'd probably get along just fine with the Philo bag of Rocs, Teebirds, Firebirds, and Destroyers. But I also probably never will, because trying different discs is fun and I'm not a professional looking to maximize my scoring for payouts.

 

[Streets]

Philo is an extreme example and makes it work with 5 molds. I think the optimal bag is somewhere in that 6-10 mold sweet spot with 4-5 of those being the ones you really lean on (like what ODRB said).

Also, I think people who get turned off from cycling and start throwing everything in their bag don't cycle the right molds for their game and needs. Just because McBeth and Philo cycle Destroyers doesn't mean YOU should. Find a reliable driver, mid, putter mold that you can throw well and go with that.

 

[Moose33]

I carry 8, which is not a low number, but essentially I have a FH/Wind disc, and a BH disc for each of the four main slots. It’s mostly Durable plastic so about 16 total discs get me where I need to be.

 

[Keller]

Over time, I've come to be one of the fewer mold throwers.

For me, when I had a bag full of different molds I spent too much time trying to decide what to throw and also never really learning my discs. If you only throw one disc for one particular shot, you never really get confident with it. That time you had the errant shot, was it you or the disc? You can buy all the discs you want in the "hope" that they will fly like you want them too, or you can learn a few molds and "make" them fly like you want them too.

Cycling isn't for everyone, I know a guy who would quit playing if he had to cycle. His fun is more in the amassing of plastic rather than becoming a better player, but that's whats fun for him. Cycling also doesn't work to well for the guy who plays relatively open courses once a week.

A couple of years ago I buckled down and tried the How to build a bag thread advice and it was a game changer for me.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32790

Not only did I learn to make discs fly multiple lines but I also learned the beauty of beat in stable discs.

The core of my bag are
Eagles
Rocs
Rhynos
Wizards
And some of my most fun rounds are when I carry one of each, no bag and just go and play a round.

The other few discs are more specialty discs; Firebird, Polecat, A beat Gazelle and my two drivers, Sidewinder and Orc.
To put all this in context, I'm an old guy who can only throw 350 on a "good" rip.

Sure, I still tinker once in a while and try something out, (cough, cough "Aviar3" cough, disappointed) but the core of my bag hasn't changed. I've developed a certain skill set with these discs that all new molds are measured against and that would never have happened if I just kept buying one disc for one shot.

It's really up to the player and their intentions. There's room for all types in disc golf and if we didn't have all those players clamoring for every new disc to do something new and exciting, how would the manufactures survive?

 

[VictorB]

A lot of the top pros in the sport seem to have very few molds. For example, Philo has a bunch of rocs all beat in to various levels of stability.

There have been a couple of reasons I've shied away from doing this kind of thing.

#1 It takes a while to beat in discs (though dx plastic probably won't take that long)
#2 I feel like it could be inconsistent. If a disc is understable, it could get flippy fairly fast.

Are these legitimate concerns? Would it be better to have a mold in various stages of wear, or get a few different molds to do various things?

Thanks

Take what touring pros do with a grain of salt. They dedicate way more time to practicing and learning that most other normal people.

Pros that carry a lot of molds - likely they have a certain shot they like the disc for, and have practiced enough with that disc to make it worthy to carry in tournaments. Less cycling means ability to restock off the shelf and have the disc you want, and that goes doubly for these pros since they can walk into the factory or send a request and get exactly what they are looking for, not something us laymen can do very easily.

Pros that carry few molds - have a lot of trust in their discs and game plan and can probably throw any shot needed with the discs they already have, so why add variance? They also probably have multiples of every disc they throw in each stage of wear they like, because they can afford to spend so much more time on the course than normal people.

For most non-professionals, it just makes sense to carry less because you can learn entire life cycles of a disc, and learning fewer molds is easier than learning more molds. That's my opinion at least.

 

[Moose33]

Feldburg is a great example of a pro literally carrying a disc for any shot imaginable, most humans would just be getting a workout from hauling all that plastic.

 

[SaROCaM]

And some of my most fun rounds are when I carry one of each, no bag and just go and play a round.

This has been my experience as well. My "full" bag has around 20 discs with 7 molds, but often I like to go play with just 3-5 discs/molds and have a fun, simple round.

 

[mentos]

i have tried both ends of the spectrum.

i had a bag full of 20+ discs that i was carrying around everywhere, and it took a couple of tourneys to show me that i have too much. someone at thr fly mart had a smaller bag [10-12] for sale. so i picked it up.

then i have spent my lunch breaks going and doing field work with all my stuff, and new stuff... and more new stuff. to figure out what i can throw well. what goes the farthest for open holes. what can i manipulate. and can i do it with one brand? the answer is still no. but i have received a better understanding of what i do carry. anything 11 speed.... i cant throw. 10 speeds are my wheel house, undersrable 12 speeds.. my main squeeze. and 7 speeds are bread and butter off the tee.

mids and putters are still duking it out if i need both or just putters. so i am searching for my set of molds that will suit my style. i have a base for it, bit want to explore options.


my sig has what works for me at this time and point. but it's always subject to change.



in all honesty find people who have amassed lots of plastic/rubber and try everything to figure out what is best for you.

 

[Stable]

Personally, my forehand has always been significantly better than my backhand. My bag has forehand molds and backhand molds. When I started, all I needed was a Firebird and a putter, because nothing flew further than a putter with my 200' backhand. As my backhand has improved(and I've gotten addicted to buying discs), I've added mids, fairway drivers, and a few 9-11 speed drivers that I almost exclusively throw backhand. But my backhand is still a ways off from being strong enough to throw the same drivers that I forehand.

I'm right there with you. My FH has always been a different animal than my BH. There are some that I can use both ways (Zone, Buzzz, Stalker, Valkyrie) but everything else is exclusive one way or the other so I need to have enough molds to compliment each style.

 

[SD86]

This is one of the biggest philosophical debates in DG. The correct answer is what works best for you.

I am NOT a mold minimalist. I carry 16-17 discs, and 14-15 different molds. I don't like cycling discs, mostly because I might lose one, and then all that work is for naught. I also prefer premium plastic for my discs, except putters, and premium plastic takes a long time, if not forever, to season in.

 

[Nenja]

For me it practically only about being comfortable with the rim, I've found a handful of molds that I love to throw and since there is old overstable versions (Saint Pro and Flow) to find i barely need others.
I throw 8 molds and I don't miss anything, actually one of them is a super OS Spark I don't even throw most rounds.

I would play equally well if 15 molds though, this is just more economic and convenient.
For example my Saint Pro, I bag 3 and have 3 OS backups. As my main gets less stable I'll throw my OS more often and as it gets beat it, I just add a fresh OS. If you buy one mold for each **** it's a hustle as they get beat in.

I'm quite sure a disc that is beat to US keeps its flight way longer than one that flies the same out of the box. So either you'll have to beat the discs in any way or you'll end up paying lots to throw fresh plastic.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

The way I see it, both approaches are more similar than they are dissimilar.

If you have an 3 Teebirds in various states of wear/plastics to cover OS , stable, & US, slots, is that so different from using, a fresh Teebird, a TL, and Leopard to do the same?

The point is, your 3 Teebirds all fly differently. If they don't, why bag all of 'em?

All that matters is having discs you know to cover the slots you need to make your shots.

 

[ODRB]

I am NOT a mold minimalist. I carry 16-17 discs, and 14-15 different molds. I don't like cycling discs, mostly because I might lose one, and then all that work is for naught. I also prefer premium plastic for my discs, except putters, and premium plastic takes a long time, if not forever, to season in.

This is what I will never understand.

You don’t like cycling? You say it like it’s a thing, an intentional goal to be worked towards. It isn’t. It just happens as you throw discs. They break in. But obviously it broke in because you liked throwing it, so put a fresh one back in to have that old flight you liked. Now you have two. That’s a cycle.

You might lose one? Fine. Then add in a disc that flies the line you lost. Eventually, you’ll beat something in to that spot.

The work is for naught? What work? You mean throwing a frisbee you like? Because that’s all a cycle is.

Premium plastic doesn’t take that long. It really doesn’t. A Sirius (Star) OLF takes about one year to go from fresh to flippy, for me.

What are you doing with your baseline putters as they beat in?

 

[PMantle]

This is what I will never understand.

You don’t like cycling? You say it like it’s a thing, an intentional goal to be worked towards. It isn’t. It just happens as you throw discs. They break in. But obviously it broke in because you liked throwing it, so put a fresh one back in to have that old flight you liked. Now you have two. That’s a cycle.

You might lose one? Fine. Then add in a disc that flies the line you lost. Eventually, you’ll beat something in to that spot.

The work is for naught? What work? You mean throwing a frisbee you like? Because that’s all a cycle is.

Premium plastic doesn’t take that long. It really doesn’t. A Sirius (Star) OLF takes about one year to go from fresh to flippy, for me.

What are you doing with your baseline putters as they beat in?

I don't understanding any part of this post.

Disc maximalism is where it's at. If I carry more than one of any mold, it's got nothing to do with cycling. I only carry base for putting and one water hole.