Looking for advice to develop better form

[sidewinder22]

1. Starting posture - ugh. I don't know if you are naturally pigeon toed/APT/curved spine, or if you actually trying to tuck your pee pee or take a crap or do the funky chicken dance. Note how your knees are pointed in and how far your pelvis is tilted anteriorly so your butt sticks out and spine extends, also note your head is already turned back early away from disc. Note how much more relaxed neutral posture Jason starts in with navel tucked closer to belt buckle, and head is looking targetward with disc in view.

2. Backswing. Note how you jump up with both shoulders/arms going up/flapping together and body swaying northwest. Note how Jason's left shoulder arm backstrokes compressing down into the rear hip to counter the right shoulder/arm extending up over head, and he remains much more centered/balanced.

 

[Thediscgolferguy]

1. Starting posture - ugh. I don't know if you are naturally pigeon toed/APT/curved spine, or if you actually trying to tuck your pee pee or take a crap or do the funky chicken dance. Note how your knees are pointed in and how far your pelvis is tilted anteriorly so your butt sticks out and spine extends, also note your head is already turned back early away from disc. Note how much more relaxed neutral posture Jason starts in with navel tucked closer to belt buckle, and head is looking targetward with disc in view.

2. Backswing. Note how you jump up with both shoulders/arms going up/flapping together and body swaying northwest. Note how Jason's left shoulder arm backstrokes compressing down into the rear hip to counter the right shoulder/arm extending up over head, and he remains much more centered/balanced.

View attachment 331005

So perfect chicken dance form? At least thats something.

I'll scrap all that silly starting posture, I might be a little ATP but I did a weird starting posture here as I tried to experiment with how my body should be if I were to swing the disc fast round and round using body monentum. I'll start following Jason.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[Thediscgolferguy]

A "little" update.

Current practice is doing drills, getting aware of postural issues, and trying to adjust. With a little bit of going wild with power throws, and trying new things.

I like the Elephant walk drill, and also the new whip drill which is kind of similar, also the windmill drill is something I'm playing with. The common factor with these is that I feel like they are setting up my lower body in a stronger posture, with knees more stacked over the ankle instead of leaning and compressing towards the toes.

Today I got a 71 mph standstill and a 74 mph windmill standstill. I think a big part of this is the stronger lower body posture I get into. My max throwing with a run-up is about 69 - 72. With a 360 I can push 75. Obviously with poorer form since I can do pretty much the same with a standstill/one-step with less momentum.

After this, I though about okay, lets just really over-correct this knee angle thing, and since SW22 has pointed out that I start wide with rigth foot and then swoop in towards center in my stride, I though lets try to do just the opposite, "Lizotte" style and go from narrow and out wide at the end. (like crush the can Lizotte style) It felt much better, stronger and more effortless than my usual 70mph throws.

I'm also working on the tilted spiral, and my que know is just imagine my belly button "starting" the move as I plant moving towards target before upper body. From what I can see myself I think some of my throws are starting to get better, at least I'm getting more aware of when I'm tipping over and a big part is also just relaxing the shoulders, not tilting the head/upper body into the throw and other smaller adjustments.

On the other hand my spin and deep pocket has gotten worse the last months or so and I'm struggling pushing over 1200+ even on high mph throws.

 

[Kennets]

For the first time in months, I got some field work in.

Focused solely on windmill throws with whip step drill/elephant walk. They're great when combined!

Looking good man, keep on pushing

 

[Thediscgolferguy]

I'm giving myself 1, or max 2 months where I'll most likely stop working on my form. I'm feeling mixed emotions about that because I'd like to start playing tournaments and play purely for fun without worrying about my form, but on the other hand, I'm still not happy where it's at. Worst case scenario I can stretch it a little bit into the season and just use my forehand only when playing rounds or tournaments as I'm sure I can score well with it as it used to be my only throw.

The technicals:

Backhand:

The good news is that my distance and speed are great, and I've learned to throw very hard, consistently. For the last weeks, I've been regularly hitting 69-70 mph. - when I try to throw hard I like to get the reach back almost behind me and I imagine winding up like the inside swing drill.

My nose angle has been a little nose up from the start of my Techdisc journey, it's been usually around +4, but probably averaging higher. In the last few days I've had several throws nose down and today I averaged about +2 on 15 max distance throws. So I'm confident this will get even better the more I focus on it. The launch angle seems to be pretty good and consistent averaging around 6-10.

My spin is not the greatest, and I tend to hit about 1150 - 1250 RPM. I'd like to hit 1300 + at least when I'm throwing 65 mph + and I'm currently working on getting a deeper pocket to hopefully achieve this.

Forehand:

My spin is pretty good here, about high 700s up to 850 RPM. I don't think there's much I can do to improve it, every time I try it just gets worse, when I'm loose and just do what I usually do it comes out the best. I've noticed that a pendulum and a windmill backswing give me less spin - but tend to give me a little bit more effortless distance. My goal is to keep playing around with the forehand and learn especially from the windmill backswing which sometimes gives me up to 65-67 mph. But I still think my normal forehand reach-back will be my main style as it's better for spin and gives me a consistent nose-down flight and better launch angle. My goal is to be able to hit 60-62 mph consistently with a relatively low-effort swing without using my arm but mostly my lower body.

Form:

I'm still struggling with the right spine angle into the brace, (tilted spiral) I still tend to come over the top and lead with my upper body. This is the main issue that I'm trying to work out before the season starts, I'm now starting to doubt that it's possible. I feel like I've worked on it for so long and tried so many things.

This feels like a major change that's very hard to break the habit of doing, some of my other issues seem more workable, and it's more about ingraining the changes into my muscle memory with repetitions, unlike the tilted spiral which I just can't seem to do.

Here are some videos from today:

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Take a full step or two. You are only taking half a step.
2. Loosen up. You look stiff and rigid like a robot.


3. Your rear leg is moving further behind the front leg instead of being pulled around.

 

[Thediscgolferguy]

1. Take a full step or two. You are only taking half a step.
2. Loosen up. You look stiff and rigid like a robot.
View attachment 332241

3. Your rear leg is moving further behind the front leg instead of being pulled around.
View attachment 332242

Thanks, I'll work on that. I'm curious if you see any improvements regarding the tilted spiral? I feel like the hyzer throw is a little better, what would be your best recommendation going forward working on this?

 

[sidewinder22]

Your posture looks all kinked up. Your foot needs to open up or pivot earlier if you are going to plant that backwards. Your front knee is behind your hip most of the throw instead of braced in front of the hip.

 

[Brychanus]

One thing I *think* I've learned about tilted axis & spiral is that it can often appear quite small on camera until you're used to looking for it.

Your form overall still looks like it's organized around and spinning a bit on a vertical axis rather than moving the whole body on a tilted balance. I'd be spending some time with Double Dragon, Turbo Encabulator moves. IMO this is one of the hardest fundamental things to fix and it doesn't tend to get better on its own. You've also learned that some people can throw quite fast without fully fixing it, so I worry more from an efficiency/longevity/consistency point of view in that case.

You mentioned a break - sometimes it is good to let muscle memory settle for a bit then pick it up again. After my recent hiatus it was good to see what was good & permanent, which also gives a bigger "signal" to what needs to be changed. Also body recovery, which creeps up on form-obsessed people.

 

[Thediscgolferguy]

One thing I *think* I've learned about tilted axis & spiral is that it can often appear quite small on camera until you're used to looking for it.

Your form overall still looks like it's organized around and spinning a bit on a vertical axis rather than moving the whole body on a tilted balance. I'd be spending some time with Double Dragon, Turbo Encabulator moves. IMO this is one of the hardest fundamental things to fix and it doesn't tend to get better on its own. You've also learned that some people can throw quite fast without fully fixing it, so I worry more from an efficiency/longevity/consistency point of view in that case.

You mentioned a break - sometimes it is good to let muscle memory settle for a bit then pick it up again. After my recent hiatus it was good to see what was good & permanent, which also gives a bigger "signal" to what needs to be changed. Also body recovery, which creeps up on form-obsessed people.

Thanks for your input, I've had a hunch that it's one of the hard things to change, and also that it's not something that just will change on its own as you say - that's why it's my main focus now before I'm going to stop doing formwork for this upcoming season. I'm also eager to get it down for the reasons you are mentioning, my speed is good enough for now, I'm at a point where I'm not aiming for speed but rather longevity and consistency.

I'm going to take your advice and work on the Double Dragon and turbo Encabulator moves, I'm also curious if you have a good way to try to spot the "tilted axis & spiral" on video - So let's say I'm doing form work on my own -recording video, do you have any advice on what I should look for and perhaps from what angle it's easiest to see any improvements?

 

[Thediscgolferguy]

Cue: side bend in the back swing and side bend in the front swing. Feels like it's helping my form, perhaps even also getting some hints of the tilted spiral? Spine angle seems better to me. Should I keep working on this perhaps?

 

[sidewinder22]

Hard to tell. What I notice is that you are turned back a bit early and you aren't dropping down much while striding into the plant.

Also noticing that your body seems to have shorter legs and longer torso than most.