Low reach back to level release for more nose down?

[disc-golf-neil]

I've heard many times about reaching back low to help with nose down, but I haven't heard a lot of nuance on this advice.

Is it mostly a counter to the many people who have the common problem of high reach backs and swooping nose up throws?

Usually a low reach back is used for a higher launch angle, so what about when you want a low launch angle, like throwing almost parallel to the ground?

In theory, you could reach back low and then level it out to a lower launch angle if you want throw more level with the ground instead of up, in this case it would be a small inverted swoop. An inverted swoop actually does sound like it could result in an upward force on the back of the disc which could then lead to the disc tilting more nose down; is this the main reason for the advice?

Ideally, I'd prefer to maintain my launch angle throughout the full motion (stay on plane) for simplicity and consistency. I don't have a major nose up issue but maybe for max distance this could help, reach back lower than the intended launch angle and reduce the launch angle as I pull through.

 

[Sheep]

low backswing has nothing to do with nose angle.

Low backswing is to help stop people from swooping, but

It's one of those issues of not fixing hte root of the issue.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

low backswing has nothing to do with nose angle.

Low backswing is to help stop people from swooping, but

It's one of those issues of not fixing hte root of the issue.

That's what I assumed but wanted to double check that I wasn't missing something more subtle. I saw Cole Redalen in an IG post not long ago say it was one of the things he was working on and cited it as something to help with nose angle so I was like, hm, is he really just doing it for the most basic reason or am I missing something more advanced that's going on?

 

[itlnstln]

There was an Ezra Aderhold YT vid some time back where he was advocating this (need to dig up citation). IIRC, one of the reasons he stated this "works" is due to some sort of inertia effect that keeps the nose down while you pull up.

If you were to hold a disc out in front of you at, say, waist-level with your wrist loose and raise your arm as if you were painting a wall; I think that's the effect advocates are trying to describe. IMO, this is very subtle at best, and most likely non-existent since you're not really pulling directly up. The path is more of an arc away from the body once you're in the power pocket at which point your wrist will have enough time to spring back from any inertia negating the effect.

Found the Ezra vid; he clearly states that the low-to-high pull is to negate swoop:

I've found that maintaining a lower pull line and release point helps enhance nose down assuming proper, pour-the-coffee wrist position. There might be some trade-off of speed potential for leverage and nose down, but it might be interesting to experiment (and maybe put a tech disc against it)

If you look at this throw (and also Ken Griffey Jr.'s bat angle, although he's a bit past the hit from a DG perspective), you can see that Paige's swing out will most likely result in the disc launching in a hyzer, nose-down angle at the hit assuming it's around 10:00.

I snagged this pic from this post from Sidewinder22 talking about brace: FPO Form

 

[Thomashasfun]

 

[Tinkles]

I think the low to high also helps reduce over rotation in the swing. For me at least, it helps me feel more like I am able to release the energy into the line of the shot better.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Every time I see "reach back low" advice, I haven't seen it clarified with launch angle.

If you reach back low and you throw along that plane you are throwing high, like for a big distance line with no ceiling. So do you still reach back low when throwing with a low ceiling? If so, you have to start low and end parallel which means not maintaining the launch angle plane and leveling out the pull through at some point.

 

[Tinkles]

I would say you do need to adjust for ceiling but I'm still moving up. I think if the disc flight height apex is above your release point which for me at 5'10" is probably 5' ish high, then you are still moving up though to a lesser degree. There are near 0% of my throws through a tunnel that requires a regular power throw through a 5' ceiling. All of this has to be adjusted though for your personal anatomy and nose angle relative to your plane of throw.

ETA - take this with a grain of salt because this is based on feeling for me, I haven't actually recorded or documented how I or a pro addresses ceiling changes.

 

[sidewinder22]

Swinging upward nose down.

Ezra giving a good tip or demonstration of swinging downward nose up vs swinging upward nose down. l_ajpOY3Ohs

www.dgcoursereview.com

 

[Brychanus]

Every time I see "reach back low" advice, I haven't seen it clarified with launch angle.

If you reach back low and you throw along that plane you are throwing high, like for a big distance line with no ceiling. So do you still reach back low when throwing with a low ceiling? If so, you have to start low and end parallel which means not maintaining the launch angle plane and leveling out the pull through at some point.

I don't think this last assumption is always correct.

I almost always throw drives with a low back swing and focus on "throwing upward nose down."

I think the overall posture of the attack ideally adjusts to the task. I basically use the same swing I use on a high ceiling line, but change the intended apex of the shot (and let the disc do the work from there, ideally).

It took a long time for me to understand this intuitively, but I forced myself to start learning it by working on my "freewheeling" swing learn the idea Ezra is talking about for higher ceiling lines, then adjust to the 300'+ tunnels around me. Think about taking a home run swing but adjusting it down for a line drive double.

I do think some players develop forms that don't explicitly work that way, but I found it easier to make progress by working on "one" fundamental move and adjusting the posture rather than learning a different move for each task. FWIW I was developing a high C1 hit rate for those tunnel shots using those mechanics (don't ask about my putting, maybe next year).

 

[Nick Carroll]

Every time I see "reach back low" advice, I haven't seen it clarified with launch angle.

I think it's more of a cue which may fix one or more things in a swing. Similar to how a suitcase grip (or position) addresses some issues. Both may not be best for everyone, but generally the "reach back low" fixes "swooping" where some people reach back high, swing low, and release high. It may also address external rotation of the upper arm at the shoulder, which is often what the suitcase addresses. I don't think either is vital to the launch angle, as they are generally cues during the late backswing and early swing. Personally I think they address nose angle more than launch angle, because swooping and external shoulder rotation throws the disc off-plane by release - in my experience it's always nose up.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Swinging upward nose down.

Ezra giving a good tip or demonstration of swinging downward nose up vs swinging upward nose down. l_ajpOY3Ohs

www.dgcoursereview.com

Ah, he basically says what I was asking it seems, reach back low but release flat if not trying to throw high which requires leveling out the pull through instead of fully maintaining the plane.

 

[Brychanus]

Ah, he basically says what I was asking it seems, reach back low but release flat if not trying to throw high which requires leveling out the pull through instead of fully maintaining the plane.

I worry that you are spending a lot of time focusing on things that might decouple your arm from your posture.

Though perhaps it is lost in words. Better triaged in form review threads/video in any case.

Kindly,

#beentheredonethat