Newbie disc weight question!

[Rickcin]

As a new player and struggling with distance when driving (120 - 135 feet) I've been using a 9 and a 7 speed and getting very similar results.

I've not paid any attention to the weight but have read that the lightest of discs will be easiest to throw as long as wind is not a factor. Should I look for a really lightweight disk in order to get more distance as I will continue to work on my form?

 

[PastorofMuppets]

Short answer, continue to work on form.

While it is easier to get a lighter weight disc up to speed, they don't have as much momentum in flight as a heavier disc. Think throwing a baseball as hard as you can, then throwing a tennis ball, then throwing a whiffle ball. All thrown the same "arm speed" which one goes farther?

There will be a sweet spot of disc weight you may come to love (mine is around 169-171) but that comes with time. If you are only at 120-135 feet currently you need to work on form. You are probably rounding and throwing nose up. The best way to improve quickly is to video yourself and head to the form section on this site and let the experts break down your form and give you tips and drills to improve. Once you are shown what you are doing wrong that is robbing all your power, you can begin to correct it. Changing discs and weight hoping for improved distance isn't where I would start.

 

[Rickcin]

Short answer, continue to work on form.

While it is easier to get a lighter weight disc up to speed, they don't have as much momentum in flight as a heavier disc. Think throwing a baseball as hard as you can, then throwing a tennis ball, then throwing a whiffle ball. All thrown the same "arm speed" which one goes farther?

There will be a sweet spot of disc weight you may come to love (mine is around 169-171) but that comes with time. If you are only at 120-135 feet currently you need to work on form. You are probably rounding and throwing nose up. The best way to improve quickly is to video yourself and head to the form section on this site and let the experts break down your form and give you tips and drills to improve. Once you are shown what you are doing wrong that is robbing all your power, you can begin to correct it. Changing discs and weight hoping for improved distance isn't where I would start.

Thanks for the informative reply, it's logical and as with anything else, there's no substitute for learning the correct way to do almost anything.
I did post a video of my self and received some good comments. I need to continue working on my form and nose down as you've mentioned and i will post another video after several more practice session. Thanks again!

 

[HB2017]

Forget about disc weight and trying to gain distance. Pick a few good drills and start working them from a standstill. At this early stage you will greatly benefit from ingraining good techique now by diligently working on drills, as opposed to focusing on throwing the disc far. Get some 175g DX Leopards and throw them as a reward only after you've worked the drills. The vast majority (>80%) of time you dedicate to disc golf should be swing drills and putting.

 

[Rickcin]

When finding a disk I'd like to purchase and do have a choice as to different weights, does it really matter what weight I choose, should I lean towards a heavier or lighter one or is it totally insignificant for me as a new player?

 

[PastorofMuppets]

When finding a disk I'd like to purchase and do have a choice as to different weights, does it really matter what weight I choose, should I lean towards a heavier or lighter one or is it totally insignificant for me as a new player?

Without getting too personal, how old are you? Disc weight recommendations really come down to the very young, the moderately senior aged players, and those with injuries or damage to their throwing ability where lighter weights will assist some in overcoming very slow arm speeds. Taking a max weight neutral low speed disc (Leopard, Buzzz, Fuse are great examples) and learning how to keep the nose down and throw those discs laser straight will do more for you than attempting to get more distance by changing weights. There is so little difference between a 175g disc and a 150g disc that the distance results are extremely marginal under perfect conditions. I throw max weight molds of the same disc farther than the lighter weight versions, and have more control. Just starting out and not having instant distance is frustrating, we've all been there. A lot of people on here made the mistake of throwing the wrong discs, super overstable discs, distance drivers, or with poor force over flex rounded form to try and get that extra distance right away. And it hindered development by creating really bad form. These are the people you will see continually saying start with slow speed discs and learn to control them, then slowly move up. I have several friends in their 50's that throw over 300 feet with putters. At the end of the day, lighter disc weight makes the disc easier to get up to speed and much harder to control and nets very little, if any, true gain in distance. There are several great videos on YouTube where disc weight is tested to see if there is any true gain, and all of them show it's a wash.

 

[Nick Pacific]

There is so little difference between a 175g disc and a 150g disc that the distance results are extremely marginal under perfect conditions.

This has not been my experience. There is a reason why all the distance records are held with lightweight discs. They go further. I can throw a 155g disc a lot farther than a 175g one, at least by a factor of 10%. If I'm going from a standstill, or playing in really cold or wet conditions go ahead and double that %.

It's not just drivers and distance either - I found lighter putters glide better and I have noticed that from 25 ft and out, and especially at 35ft or so I can make a lot more putts with a 167g putter than a 175g. Once your putter gets into the 165g and below range though it tends to bounce out off the pole more, the lighter weight doesn't hit and sit like a max weight putter does so there is some diminishing returns there, although for long C2 putts it might be worth it.

 

[Nick Pacific]

There are several great videos on YouTube where disc weight is tested to see if there is any true gain, and all of them show it's a wash.

Could you post a link?

 

[ChrisinFL]

As a new player and struggling with distance when driving (120 - 135 feet) I've been using a 9 and a 7 speed and getting very similar results.

I've not paid any attention to the weight but have read that the lightest of discs will be easiest to throw as long as wind is not a factor. Should I look for a really lightweight disk in order to get more distance as I will continue to work on my form?

You used to say max about 100', and now you are saying 120-135', so it sounds like you are progressing some! I know everyone says form, form, form, and of course keep working on that, but I recently went through what you are going through, and still going through the fight for better form and more distance now, but at 265', and IMHO, there is nothing wrong with using a few lighter weight drivers if it adds some distance, and some fun to your play! 145-155g seems to be the magic weight for me so far; lighter is too floaty, and heavier takes away from my arm speed and my distance. At just a little farther than you are throwing, I really loved 158g Lat 64 Retro (base plastic) Diamonds. I found they liked to fly flat and straight, were my longest discs at the time, and very beginner friendly. In fact, I liked my first one so much, I got 5 more so I had plenty to practice with, and backups if I lost any, etc. Now I use discs I can throw further than my Diamonds, plus now my Diamonds are too flippy, requiring throwing them mostly on a hyzer release, which hurts my consistency, but I still throw them a little in practice now and then for fun and nostalgia! Similarly, if you got a 7-9 speed disc that you like a lot, I would say order a lighter weight one to try out (if they make it in a lighter weight - not all discs come in light weights). I got a bunch already of Innova F2 light weight discs - F2s are similar to misprints - ugly, but fly the same as a same regular printed disc. Innova seems to make more light weight discs than most other manufacturers, though the light weight discs are getting a bit more common. I also love Innova F2 Friday: you check their social media, or Bill on here posts it most Fridays, and they offer a specific disc free if you order at least 3 discs, and use the coupon code. That offsets their $6 shipping fee. 5 discs or more gets you 10% off, and I think $75 to get free shipping.

 

[BillFleming]

As a new player and struggling with distance when driving (120 - 135 feet) I've been using a 9 and a 7 speed and getting very similar results.

I've not paid any attention to the weight but have read that the lightest of discs will be easiest to throw as long as wind is not a factor. Should I look for a really lightweight disk in order to get more distance as I will continue to work on my form?

My suggestion. With only getting 120 to 135 feet, something is wrong with your form. I suggest working with putters and low speed midranges (5 speed) for now. Maybe even just putters (3 speed and less). Once you can get those out to 200ish feet, then look into using higher speed discs.

I've been measured at a 42 MPH average RHBH throw. My instructor said that anything over a 7 speed will not fly 'as designed' for me. To get anything over a 7 speed to fly close to the designed flight, I have to go lightweight. But I first focused on correcting my form and now I'm getting my 5 speeds out to 250.

If possible, find an instructor....something is wrong/missing in your form and unless you are providing videos of all angles, it may be near impossible to determine what is off in your form. Even if someone can spot what is off, correcting it can be difficult when it isn't in person with you.

How is your flight/distance throwing forehand? Maybe your form is better that way over backhand. I started out as a forehand only player for a couple of years as I just could not get my backhand form anywhere near consistent.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

This has not been my experience. There is a reason why all the distance records are held with lightweight discs. They go further. I can throw a 155g disc a lot farther than a 175g one, at least by a factor of 10%. If I'm going from a standstill, or playing in really cold or wet conditions go ahead and double that %.

It's not just drivers and distance either - I found lighter putters glide better and I have noticed that from 25 ft and out, and especially at 35ft or so I can make a lot more putts with a 167g putter than a 175g. Once your putter gets into the 165g and below range though it tends to bounce out off the pole more, the lighter weight doesn't hit and sit like a max weight putter does so there is some diminishing returns there, although for long C2 putts it might be worth it.

Depends exponentially on arm speed and wind (and elevation). All the distance records are thrown with ridiculous tail winds. Dave Wiggins threw a 154g boss with a tailwind of 38-42 mph. He threw that throw at an arm speed of 85 mph. Tailwinds make discs act more stable. That arm speed has been broken (Simon throwing into a net), but not the distance. Pros obviously aren't throwing light weight discs in tournaments because they sacrifice tons of control. There are exceptions.

Physics wise everyone is basically experienced with Force = Mass x Acceleration. If we lighten the disc (mass) you must impart more acceleration to equal the same force imparted on the disc. So there is a trade off. How much faster do you need to throw a lighter weight disc to even out or net gain force? While also not sacrificing stability and control? You can certainly throw light weight discs, but they are not always the answer. A person throwing 130 feet is not getting a disc up to speed. There is a big difference between a person throwing 130-200 max distance and a person throwing 300-350. And even more difference in people in the 400 or greater range. The rule of 35 would suggest a person maxing out at 350 should be throwing 10 speeds for optimum "getting the disc up to speed" throws. They can certainly go up to 11 or 12 or even 13 speeds to try and stretch that distance but usually do so by moving to more and more understable plasti, or by trying to lighten the weight. There is a tipping point where a lighter disc becomes too understable. They are bad for off axis torque on forehands (but can be great if you can control them with great form). The big tradeoff is wind resistance. You also must factor in elevation where discs do not glide as well at elevation. Lighter discs slow down faster as they don't have as much momentum to keep pushing forward. While it is certainly possible to try multitudes of discs and find the right weight and right stability and right mold, it isn't as easy as just get a lighter version of your favorite driver to get big distance. I think the math on it was you gain 5.5 mph on your throw for every 20 grams you shave off the weight of the disc. 5.5 mph in a controlled environment with no wind, elevation change, on flat ground equates to something like 36 feet of potential distance gain. But you must also account for the high speed turn from the added understability and lack of glide and finish. Can you possibly throw a lighter weight disc farther, yes. Will you always, no. Is it the correct answer for beginner distance, also no. These basically test this idea, and come to some conclusions based on the data collected. I've included both positive and negative results oriented videos to not be biased.

Some Links:

 

[txmxer]

If the disc goes out, up, then dumps hard left (for RHBH), it's nose up. Particularly when you try different discs with essentially the same results.

If you can get a neutral disc to finish forward rather than dump, the angle is probably okay.

 

[ChrisinFL]

I agree that lighter discs are easier to get up to speed, and for beginners, in general, they will fly further. I think they can be a bit trickier to throw, in that they might move around more in flight. Lighter discs are definitely affected more by wind, although, thrown well with the wind, they can add even more distance advantage. I think heavier discs are a bit more stable than lighter discs, which contributes to slow arm throwers getting more distance with lighter discs. With heavier discs, thrown too slow, they will get more of the hard, early dump left (RHBH). I have seen the first video before, and again now - it mostly confirms lighter discs leave the hand faster, and travel further, backhand. It also says lighter discs are nearly useless forehand because they flip over too early - personally, I only throw RHBH, so I can't speak to that from my own experience, but it makes sense to me. I will try to watch the other videos too. Myself, I can throw higher speed discs in light weights, but not at all in heavy weights. I throw them with reasonably good accuracy, get more distance more easily, and I do not use them to make up for bad form - I continue to work diligently on my form. I am a recreational player, and for me, the lighter weight discs and added distance make the game more fun! I play with a guy that throws faster than me, and for him, he uses almost no high speed drivers. He says faster discs get him no extra distance, and are a lot harder to control. So, what light weight discs do may vary from person to person, and you only find out if you like them by giving them a try! Personally, I love my 145-150g Terns, Shrykes, Corvette, Katanas, and Fission Waves.

 

[ChrisinFL]

If the disc goes out, up, then dumps hard left (for RHBH), it's nose up. Particularly when you try different discs with essentially the same results.

If you can get a neutral disc to finish forward rather than dump, the angle is probably okay.

If a disc is too heavy and too high speed for the thrower, even thrown nose down, it will dump hard left early (RHBH).

 

[ChrisinFL]

Depends exponentially on arm speed and wind (and elevation). All the distance records are thrown with ridiculous tail winds. Dave Wiggins threw a 154g boss with a tailwind of 38-42 mph. He threw that throw at an arm speed of 85 mph. Tailwinds make discs act more stable. That arm speed has been broken (Simon throwing into a net), but not the distance. Pros obviously aren't throwing light weight discs in tournaments because they sacrifice tons of control. There are exceptions.

Physics wise everyone is basically experienced with Force = Mass x Acceleration. If we lighten the disc (mass) you must impart more acceleration to equal the same force imparted on the disc. So there is a trade off. How much faster do you need to throw a lighter weight disc to even out or net gain force? While also not sacrificing stability and control? You can certainly throw light weight discs, but they are not always the answer. A person throwing 130 feet is not getting a disc up to speed. There is a big difference between a person throwing 130-200 max distance and a person throwing 300-350. And even more difference in people in the 400 or greater range. The rule of 35 would suggest a person maxing out at 350 should be throwing 10 speeds for optimum "getting the disc up to speed" throws. They can certainly go up to 11 or 12 or even 13 speeds to try and stretch that distance but usually do so by moving to more and more understable plasti, or by trying to lighten the weight. There is a tipping point where a lighter disc becomes too understable. They are bad for off axis torque on forehands (but can be great if you can control them with great form). The big tradeoff is wind resistance. You also must factor in elevation where discs do not glide as well at elevation. Lighter discs slow down faster as they don't have as much momentum to keep pushing forward. While it is certainly possible to try multitudes of discs and find the right weight and right stability and right mold, it isn't as easy as just get a lighter version of your favorite driver to get big distance. I think the math on it was you gain 5.5 mph on your throw for every 20 grams you shave off the weight of the disc. 5.5 mph in a controlled environment with no wind, elevation change, on flat ground equates to something like 36 feet of potential distance gain. But you must also account for the high speed turn from the added understability and lack of glide and finish. Can you possibly throw a lighter weight disc farther, yes. Will you always, no. Is it the correct answer for beginner distance, also no. These basically test this idea, and come to some conclusions based on the data collected. I've included both positive and negative results oriented videos to not be biased.

Some Links:

The second video had varied results, and is not at all pertinent to this discussion. It is one guy, throwing mostly Ballistas, and throwing 400' plus. We are talking about lighter weight discs to help a beginner/slow arm speed person get more distance. One interesting point he made - often manufacturers make light weight discs different than heavy weight discs, so they are not always less stable. The light weight discs are often a different beast compared to a heavier weight of the same disc. I knew this, but it is easy to forget, and it is a very interesting point!

 

[ChrisinFL]

Depends exponentially on arm speed and wind (and elevation). All the distance records are thrown with ridiculous tail winds. Dave Wiggins threw a 154g boss with a tailwind of 38-42 mph. He threw that throw at an arm speed of 85 mph. Tailwinds make discs act more stable. That arm speed has been broken (Simon throwing into a net), but not the distance. Pros obviously aren't throwing light weight discs in tournaments because they sacrifice tons of control. There are exceptions.

Physics wise everyone is basically experienced with Force = Mass x Acceleration. If we lighten the disc (mass) you must impart more acceleration to equal the same force imparted on the disc. So there is a trade off. How much faster do you need to throw a lighter weight disc to even out or net gain force? While also not sacrificing stability and control? You can certainly throw light weight discs, but they are not always the answer. A person throwing 130 feet is not getting a disc up to speed. There is a big difference between a person throwing 130-200 max distance and a person throwing 300-350. And even more difference in people in the 400 or greater range. The rule of 35 would suggest a person maxing out at 350 should be throwing 10 speeds for optimum "getting the disc up to speed" throws. They can certainly go up to 11 or 12 or even 13 speeds to try and stretch that distance but usually do so by moving to more and more understable plasti, or by trying to lighten the weight. There is a tipping point where a lighter disc becomes too understable. They are bad for off axis torque on forehands (but can be great if you can control them with great form). The big tradeoff is wind resistance. You also must factor in elevation where discs do not glide as well at elevation. Lighter discs slow down faster as they don't have as much momentum to keep pushing forward. While it is certainly possible to try multitudes of discs and find the right weight and right stability and right mold, it isn't as easy as just get a lighter version of your favorite driver to get big distance. I think the math on it was you gain 5.5 mph on your throw for every 20 grams you shave off the weight of the disc. 5.5 mph in a controlled environment with no wind, elevation change, on flat ground equates to something like 36 feet of potential distance gain. But you must also account for the high speed turn from the added understability and lack of glide and finish. Can you possibly throw a lighter weight disc farther, yes. Will you always, no. Is it the correct answer for beginner distance, also no. These basically test this idea, and come to some conclusions based on the data collected. I've included both positive and negative results oriented videos to not be biased.

Some Links:

The third video has some interesting points, in general shows an old study that proved lighter discs get released faster and go further (using no actual light weight discs, but all 165-175g discs), with a caveat that the person making the video doesn't think that means you should just go get light weight versions of your favorite drivers. NONE of the three videos you posted match/support your statement about light weight discs, "Is it the correct answer for beginner distance, also no.". In fact, if anything the videos leaned the opposite of that - lighter discs in general are released faster, and do get more distance, thrown backhand.

 

[mostlynorwegian]

The disc weight is a what is comfortable in your hand thing at this point. Heavy will feel heavy, and probably handle wind better. Depending. Light will be the other way around. Depending. If you find that x weight doesn't work, or feel right when you use it. Adjust accordingly as you develop. Don't get too far into the weeds of navel gazing. You will already have more than enough thoughts and bits to think about with the what is important. FORM.
Form first. If the 9 speed is overstable, and your form is off. And it is. It's just going to make fun of you. And it has. It will also hurt you if you try and use your actual arm to yank it. DON'T. DO Play with it as a forehand flick and general purpose approach disk. It will become far more useful to you in the range you are playing in right now as a utility disc anyways.
Start with the 7, and a more neutral 9 speed. Or, if you need a bigger grip to release. Go under stable first. Because as your form develops. You will learn how to get more distance from them. And your arm will thank you for it. And you get rewarded with a beautiful disc flight.

 

[Sheep]

Wait,
So what was the weight of the discs that distance records was set with?

Oh yeah. 130 gramms.

I'ma throw this in here cause of the ignorance factor of a lot of the "it doesnt' matter for distance" stuff.

150 gramm discs are way easier to throw than a 175.

If there wasn't a difference between them, people would throw lighter discs.
lighter discs = higher exit velocity.
As well, they are just much easier to throw in general.
Where you're loss is when it comes to inertia/mass towards the ass of the grass.

So there is your trade off.

But mathematically. you're gonna get higher exit velocity, then drag blah blah with the mass.
you'll probably see a higher number on the lighter disc without question.

Were not even factoring spin in yet.


Generally people with lower arm speeds throw 150 class discs much further than 175 counterparts.
I watch it all the time.
I play with people who throw both.

I watch 30-40 foot differences in their distance just from 20 grams of weight.

Why?
They are able to get the disc up to speed so it flies properly and carries.

 

[Rickcin]

My suggestion. With only getting 120 to 135 feet, something is wrong with your form. I suggest working with putters and low speed midranges (5 speed) for now. Maybe even just putters (3 speed and less). Once you can get those out to 200ish feet, then look into using higher speed discs.

I've been measured at a 42 MPH average RHBH throw. My instructor said that anything over a 7 speed will not fly 'as designed' for me. To get anything over a 7 speed to fly close to the designed flight, I have to go lightweight. But I first focused on correcting my form and now I'm getting my 5 speeds out to 250.

If possible, find an instructor....something is wrong/missing in your form and unless you are providing videos of all angles, it may be near impossible to determine what is off in your form. Even if someone can spot what is off, correcting it can be difficult when it isn't in person with you.

How is your flight/distance throwing forehand? Maybe your form is better that way over backhand. I started out as a forehand only player for a couple of years as I just could not get my backhand form anywhere near consistent.

My backhand has improved slightly, I've gained some distance (not what I would like) and my accuracy has improver, not lost discs last time out, haha!

I did purchase several 5 speeds, however last time out I was throwing a 7 for most all shots except for putting. Without looking at the weights, the 7 just feels heavier than say my 5 Mako but perhaps thats just "hand feel" and since it's always breezy in this area, I was thinking a higher number means better control.

I never tried throwing forehand since it just feels unnatural and I've been trying to improve technique without trying to master two different methods.

All things considered, I usually order from OTB and i often see many different weight options for my selected disc and I'm always wondering, what's best for me but have to wonder, will a 10g - 15g difference really matter???

 

[Sheep]

The third video has some interesting points, in general shows an old study that proved lighter discs get released faster and go further (using no actual light weight discs, but all 165-175g discs), with a caveat that the person making the video doesn't think that means you should just go get light weight versions of your favorite drivers. NONE of the three videos you posted match/support your statement about light weight discs, "Is it the correct answer for beginner distance, also no.". In fact, if anything the videos leaned the opposite of that - lighter discs in general are released faster, and do get more distance, thrown backhand.

I think a lot of the issue comes into the "must always throw max weight" camp.

And this camp can go pound sand somewhere else. They are ignorant.

I've played with 550 foot throwers, "gotta be max weight or I turn it over."

Dude, I'm telling you, throw some 150 stuff. They were able to keep the 500+ throws but not strain their body so hard. This allowed them to also throw tighter distance lines in the woods as they didn't have to focus so hard on smashing the disc to get the performance and speed to get the disc to carry.

The only time I see issues with light weight discs in the wind also is when its like 30-40mph.
This whole max weight in the wind only thing.

let me introduce you to the brand of MVP.
Their 150 class stuff doesn't give a rats ass about your wind.

And if your argument is that the wind cannto blow around 175 discs as easily.
The wind gives 0 fucks about your feelings when you show the top or bottom of that flight plate to it. It's moving it regardless.