PDGA Rules mean nothing

NewnHot

Bogey Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
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71
I give warning for egregious fouls and ignore minor things, but here goes.

During my most recent tournament, A-Tier MA3, a player putted from 15ft away, with 2 other putters in his off hand. He missed the putt and then fired both the other 2 putters at the same time, 1 went in, and the other hit the cage. I called a 2-stroke penalty. No one on the card would second the call. I am done calling penalties. Pick up your disc move it to a better lie, all good, foot fouls, all good. Do whatever you want. There are no rules.
 
I find that MA3 is often an educational division. I have sometimes played a tournament or two in MA3 to earn Worlds points much quicker than my home MA60. In addition to a snack bar and water, I find I generally need to pack patience and a willingness to teach the rules and etiquette of the game.

Maybe you are not best suited for sanctioned, tournament play.
 
I will say good on you for actually trying to enforce a penalty. Yes, as noted it is MA3 which is for sure for teaching and for helping unfamiliar players learn what tournament play is, so it doesn't surprise me that no one seconded it.
 
The player fired 2 putters (together, at the same time) after a missed putt, in a tournament, huh?

'Dude, that thing you just did, throwing 2 putters together, presumably in anger, the mini-tantrum, that you know is wrong? Yea, that is wrong and it's a penalty - here are 2 penalty strokes to reinforce this teachable moment'!
 
Maybe show them the actual rule you are attempting to enforcing. There is no rule that specifically says you get two penalty throws for firing putters in anger. I wouldn't second that call either. You can't just say they did something that made you feel two-throws upset.

(Yes, there are rules that could have resulted in two penalty throws (or more) for this situation, but not all under one action. Depending on whether he cleaned up his first missed putt or not, and counted that throw or not.)
 
No consequences, no learning. When I did the same thing (with one other disc) in my first tournament ever in MA60, I was stroked a penalty stroke and learned really quick.
 
If pro players don't really know the rules very well, the expectation of ma3 players knowing the rules is even lower.

Most of it is because they have gotten away with it many times prior.

I've played casual rounds and informed people they were violating the rules and explained how they were doing something incorrect and they got outright biffed by it and got an attitude.

.. bro, you can't step on your disc and throw. I'm just letting you know so when you play with others you don't get stroked.

He was just pissy about it the rest of the round. Like, were not even playing for money, why are you mad?
 
If pro players don't really know the rules very well, the expectation of ma3 players knowing the rules is even lower.

Most of it is because they have gotten away with it many times prior.

I've played casual rounds and informed people they were violating the rules and explained how they were doing something incorrect and they got outright biffed by it and got an attitude.

.. bro, you can't step on your disc and throw. I'm just letting you know so when you play with others you don't get stroked.

He was just pissy about it the rest of the round. Like, were not even playing for money, why are you mad?
I've found when you actually give them the penalty, they take it better. The penalty makes it more about the game (and the impact on competitors) than about them specifically.

If you are not giving them the penalty, they think maybe it isn't real, or maybe you aren't sure enough about the rule to enforce it. So, why are you hassling them for no consequence?

(Besides, you CAN step on one of your discs when you throw. But if that disc is your marker, that's evidence you had a supporting point closer to the target than the rear edge of the marker disc, which is actually what is illegal.)
 
^isn't it that you can't step on the marker at the moment of release? Toes coming down ahead of what was the supporting point (heel) after release should be legit even if they contact the marker.
 
^isn't it that you can't step on the marker at the moment of release? Toes coming down ahead of what was the supporting point (heel) after release should be legit even if they contact the marker.
Technically, it is that you must "Have no supporting point closer to the target than the rear edge of the marker disc;"

"Rear edge" means the single point farthest from the target. This is not expressly stated in the rules, but is consistent with the lie being a rectangle and the line of play going through the center of the disc.

All of the marker disc except the rear edge is closer to the target than the rear edge of the marker disc. So, touching anywhere on top of the marker disc is too close to the target. Also, pushing the marker disc forward before and at release means your foot is too close to the target.

If you were able to touch only the point at the rear edge without pushing the disc, that would be legal. Or, at least it would not "clearly" be a violation and wouldn't need to be called per 801.02 B.

For fairway throws, some players rotate on the heel and swing the toes around after release, and the toes hit the marker. That's legal (because it was after release), but it has resulted in some false calls.

When putting or making touchy throws, most players don't rotate on the plant foot; they use the big toe to push off for power at release. So for those throws, touching the top of disc or pushing it forward would be illegal.

The easiest thing would be for all of us to just leave an inch or two gap between your foot and your disc. One less thing to worry about when throwing.
 
I've found when you actually give them the penalty, they take it better. The penalty makes it more about the game (and the impact on competitors) than about them specifically.

If you are not giving them the penalty, they think maybe it isn't real, or maybe you aren't sure enough about the rule to enforce it. So, why are you hassling them for no consequence?

(Besides, you CAN step on one of your discs when you throw. But if that disc is your marker, that's evidence you had a supporting point closer to the target than the rear edge of the marker disc, which is actually what is illegal.)

A rule is no longer a rule if it is not enforced.

This is why footfaults and other rules have become of no concern to pro's or even players making such excuses as "it doesn't give them any advantage."

Which shows the delusion of players who don't even understand basic stuff.

Hitting the Lie is PART of successfully throwing the disc.
Its way easier to throw a frisbee if you dont have to worry where your final step is.
 
A rule is no longer a rule if it is not enforced.

This is why footfaults and other rules have become of no concern to pro's or even players making such excuses as "it doesn't give them any advantage."

Which shows the delusion of players who don't even understand basic stuff.

Hitting the Lie is PART of successfully throwing the disc.
Its way easier to throw a frisbee if you dont have to worry where your final step is.
All true, but PLEASE, the plural of "pro" is "pros", not "pro's".

I know your spell check is probably at fault. If so, fight it.

Grammar rules are rules, too.
:)
 
All true, but PLEASE, the plural of "pro" is "pros", not "pro's".

I know your spell check is probably at fault. If so, fight it.

Grammar rules are rules, too.
:)

It's not a spell check thing, its a me thing. As you can see there, I just missed that one, but sometimes I'll add them in when I don't mean/need to.

And while I made an error with the pros vs pro's. .. Though I think I always type it with an apostrophe. .. uhh>
just be happy that I'm actually using them. Cause.... unless peoples phone does it automatically for them, they dont have a clue.
 
Perhaps, sometime in the past, your cardmates had witnessed a rules violation go uncalled, so now they're justified in not calling rules.
 

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