Physical and Mental Fatigue and Overload

[thatdirtykid]

I am looking to start a conversation about fatigue and overload. Mostly mental but also physical.

Brief disc golf bio: near 20 years playing fairly seriously with breaks from competitive play. about 6 or 7 years ago (around 30yo) I peaked at 970 and maintained a 960s average with minimal practice or playing. As soon as I tried to jump in and play more things started slipping. Backhand distance has always been a strength, at the time there was only a handful of guys in CO that I wasn't keeping up with off the tee. Putting has always been a weak point to an all out a struggle.
I am 37yo, 6'2 170-180lbs, naturally athletic and throwing comes easily to me. Self awareness is minimal, I have never been good at understanding form or what I do right/wrong. That lack of understanding has made coming back from injury (mild shoulder issues, broken hand, some hip issues, lots of knee issues) tough.
I have always tuned my form through drills. Field work or putter rounds generally. Playing putters only for a few weeks is my go to reset button.

I have been working at coming back from a pretty significant mental breakdown followed by injuries over the last few years. I feel I have continued building my skillsets but my mental game has made near zero improvement. I understand better physical health and nutrition should be an easy step toward improving both mental and physical endurance. I am fairly healthy but have plenty of room for improvement there as well. I do not tend to take myself or game too seriously, or have too high of expectations. Possibly to a point it's become a fault. Focus is still terribly difficult, especially late in a tourney round.
While I do not take much too seriously, it is quite humbling and border line humiliating to be scoring worse than I used to with 6 discs and less than a years experience despite having a better skillset and 20 years experience and knowledge.

I am at a loss of where to start to make and maintain actual improvements. I have tried to attack my putting yips that have plagued me for nearly 5 years. Lots of practice and developing a putt with fewer variables. I feel like I make improvements in my putting and generally then find myself back at the bottom. IE this weekend having a physical/mental block where on my final 5 of 60 tourney holes on a weekend I genuinely could not let go of the disc and was missing 30+ degrees right regardless of how much I was trying to put on the disc. Definitely a mental block as much as a physical one. From what I can tell is I have not gotten my lower body timing to be as natural as it once was and that's led to rounding and timing issues. That coupled with the mental block of not trusting my hand to function as its supposed to (lingering from post rehab grip issues). Overall hand strength despite injury, I have always had decent grip strength, and being an electrician makes sure I maintain it (was able to pull over 80psi on a dynamometer by the end of rehab, about on par with my left. I believe I have continued to regain strength in my right). In events like this weekend I have found my hand feeling significantly weaker and range and ease of motion in my my ring/pinky were limited.

My thoughts:
Continue to improve diet, especially leading up to long weekends.
Re-incorporate a little more cardio into my life again.
Continue pushing though the mental stresses of daily life in hopes to have more available bandwidth. This includes continuing therapy
Possibly take a break from competitive play for a few years so I can come back with a fresh mindset and not continue to re-enforce negative mental habits.
Possibly find mobility exercises to increase hand flexibility and endurance.
Overshare on DGCR in hopes for some nuggets of wisdom.

 

[Sheep]

I'ma talk briefly about something that is often overlooked in disc golf.

Keeping our brain fed before, during and after the round is incredibly important.
Same as hydration and keeping it in our bodies and how we hydrate.

We, as golfers, need to seriously be thinking about feeding our brain the night before the round, before the round, during the round and after to maintain proper mental awareness and accuracy.
Our brain uses TONS of fuel when doing disc golf. And its not fuel to deal with all the play were doing, that's almost mindless.
Its' dealing with everything going on around you on your card. watching players, dealing with their attitudes and mistakes, waiting.

Your brain is in overdrive while you wait for your card mates to play, it's at a high idle burning fuel at high speeds. We don't think about this and pre hydration.

To put in perspective.

If you're playing a 2 round 1 day tournament.

At hole 9 of your first round, you need to be eating food to prepare you for the start of your second round. The food you eat between rounds is to maintain you for half of the second round, and the food at the start of the 2nd round is going to help you finish fueled up.

And the brain is a muscle, so we need some post game too.

Not talking burgers and stuff, but good things our body can turn into brainfood quickly with low round impact.

Such as eating some healthy crackers or granola through out the round, or wahtever you find your body needs.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

I agree with hydration, that's where a lot of folks fall down. One of my teachers explained the importance of no more than two cups of coffee and a ton of water the night before and morning of a test. If your brain gets dry the electrical current in it can't flow properly etc.

If hand issues are a problem try a cheap glove, I get ngo or some other cheesy China thin glove from Amazon for work, they're about $2 a pair but I maintain dexterity and the grip is nice in the winter if you roll that way. Practicing with gloves and also wet discs can help iron out form issues (for me). I used to dunk my discs in water before throwing them to prep for winter rounds, it's funny how much you rely on hand grip for accuracy, if you don't have it you can identify some of the off axis parts of your throw. I imagine that's probably not good advice haha but I found it eye opening. With me it was the late spin I added to a disc costing me accuracy, "too much English on it".

Mentally just give yourself a few key mantras to repeat in your head. My current one is "load the legs and the hand" and "nod to the gods". When I'm playing or choosing a shot "there's nothing wrong with par", when I shit the bed "it's not a bad drive it's a chance for a great comeback shot".

I try to remember the wins I got when I thought I was long out of it and just kept playing for a par. If it's a 2 round tourney and i need to shake the funk, I will switch to my backup putter (which is identical) I will dump half my discs, toss my nutsac cross shoulder and play bag on like it's a casual round (not for driving though, that's stupid).

Yay sparky.

 

[HyzerRoc]

Monitoring progress too closely and trying hard to improve are the opposite of being loose and relaxed. While loose and relaxed the best shots come out and it is easiest to incorporate new movements into form, at least in my experience. Attaching joy to progress in a hobby also leads me to avoid the hobby if progress doesnt come as it makes me dread training sessions. Trying to make progress in your form or play also means changes are needed and with changes there will be less consistency. There are guys on my course with terrible form that they have perfected for years and by now they are so proficient at it, they have good accuracy. If you make changes you dont have this kind of advantage.

To me your post reads like you are exhausted and your list at the end reads like you want to combat this by trying harder. If your form was good in the past, it wont vanish over night and maybe it is actually some relaxation and some space from the hobby that would be helpful.

 

[Brychanus]

About 6 or 7 years ago (around 30yo) I peaked at 970 and maintained a 960s average with minimal practice or playing.

I am 37yo, 6'2 170-180lbs, naturally athletic and throwing comes easily to me. Self awareness is minimal, I have never been good at understanding form or what I do right/wrong.

I am looking to start a conversation about fatigue and overload. Mostly mental but also physical.

I have been working at coming back from a pretty significant mental breakdown followed by injuries over the last few years.

I am at a loss of where to start to make and maintain actual improvements.

Definitely a mental block as much as a physical one.

Be kinder to yourself.

Minds and bodies are probably not entirely separable things. You're writing like someone who is competitive by nature and has been accumulating a lot of body mileage while getting a bit older. You are mentioning being a "natural thrower" who throws far while accumulating various joint issues. So whether your mind or body gave out first, think about their connection. I don't know you, but it seems possible that the encroach of Father Time and that mileage are somewhere in the back of your mind, and our bodies (and minds) remodel and change against injury. If you are entering your late 30s, you are in that joyous phase where your soft tissues start to get measurably less limber, slower to warm up, less reflexive, recover slower, and so on. You are mentioning changes in your lower body mechanics that you perceive in that context and also in response to injuries, which is related to mistrust in your body. You say that you are at a loss about where to make improvements, and I would suggest that giving yourself the grace to accept certain things is a start.

Learn what makes athletes, especially older ones, hold up better physically mentally and consider changing some habits. Also consider whether your 37 y/o body will never be your 17 y/o body again, and why that is a psychological as much as a physical issue. Maybe you need to approach old problems in new ways.

Sounds like a lot of what you suggested to yourself at the end makes sense. As I get older, I have never regretted my time receiving or training in (psychological) therapy. FWIW my sessions with a sports physical therapist and the start of intensive form work were the best thing I physically did for myself after I developed knee issues (from throwing) and were the beginning of developing much smarter physical habits for me (which also helped my mind). Then, the changes in my mind led to more positive physical habits, etc.

The advice about hydration and snacks is also sound and definitely seems to matter more to me than it did 10 or 20 years ago.

 

[Sheep]

Mentally just give yourself a few key mantras to repeat in your head. My current one is "load the legs and the hand" and "nod to the gods". When I'm playing or choosing a shot "there's nothing wrong with par", when I shit the bed "it's not a bad drive it's a chance for a great comeback shot".

Mine is "Don't trip. Tripod disc golf"

 

[Sheep]

Monitoring progress too closely and trying hard to improve are the opposite of being loose and relaxed. While loose and relaxed the best shots come out and it is easiest to incorporate new movements into form, at least in my experience. Attaching joy to progress in a hobby also leads me to avoid the hobby if progress doesnt come as it makes me dread training sessions. Trying to make progress in your form or play also means changes are needed and with changes there will be less consistency. There are guys on my course with terrible form that they have perfected for years and by now they are so proficient at it, they have good accuracy. If you make changes you dont have this kind of advantage.

To me your post reads like you are exhausted and your list at the end reads like you want to combat this by trying harder. If your form was good in the past, it wont vanish over night and maybe it is actually some relaxation and some space from the hobby that would be helpful.

This is the absolute hardest thing to teach as a coach.

Our brain thinks "try hard, push hard, be hard and you will do well" when in movements like disc golf, it's about the dance and the flow.

By trying to be to controlling of the dance, we make jerky and poor movements, vs smooth flowing movements that are graceful as well as powerful. Learning to turn your brain off enough where you can practically let go of the wheel while basically driving with 1 finger to keep it between the lanes is very hard to do. We like to be in control, we like to be in command. And we are, but we need to let the body do its thing, and we need to just make minor adjustments during the swing and at the right time stomp on the gas pedal after the kinetic chain has been built.
And that's hard.
Because there are methods of throwing which are far more ridged and muscled.

But, all the students i've gotten to relax and slow down immediately throw 30-40 feet further without any form chances.

 

[Nick Carroll]

I think it's important to recognize that when you're aching - not just tired - your performance can suffer. Your body will try to protect itself, and sometimes if a body part (muscle, tendon, ligament, etc) is hurting, your body might instinctively change the way you throw to minimize further damage. In my experience, not only is the body not a machine (and therefore imperfect), it wants to do it's own thing. It will change things up whether or not you intended it to do so. That's why actions are not always fully repeatable with the same level of control or success.

An example: practice putting. Notice how often your arm, wrist, hand makes a slight adjustment after each putt. That sort of thing is aggravated due to soreness or injury. So it just helps to keep that mind when playing. If you're having a bad round with a lot more mistakes than usual, it's likely the fatigue (either cardiovascular and muscular - or both) is a culprit.

 

[jupiterboy]

We are all slowly or more rapidly falling apart. Gotta adapt.

I start the day with a shake, and I can't do this without a VitaMix that can break down seeds, so FWIW

half banana
dose of golden milk powder (turmeric, ginger, Ceylon cinnamon, curcumin extract)
does of taurine powder
tablespoon of flax seeds
1/2 cup frozen fruit (blueberries or whatever)
tablespoon of chia seeds (soaked with the leftover tea water)
dose of spirulina/chlorella powder
knob of fresh ginger sliced
1/2 cup or so of kefir
soy milk or other liquid to loosen the shake as needed

get on the good foot

 

[Skervoy]

I'ma talk briefly about something that is often overlooked in disc golf.

Keeping our brain fed before, during and after the round is incredibly important.
Same as hydration and keeping it in our bodies and how we hydrate.

We, as golfers, need to seriously be thinking about feeding our brain the night before the round, before the round, during the round and after to maintain proper mental awareness and accuracy.
Our brain uses TONS of fuel when doing disc golf. And its not fuel to deal with all the play were doing, that's almost mindless.
Its' dealing with everything going on around you on your card. watching players, dealing with their attitudes and mistakes, waiting.

Your brain is in overdrive while you wait for your card mates to play, it's at a high idle burning fuel at high speeds. We don't think about this and pre hydration.

To put in perspective.

If you're playing a 2 round 1 day tournament.

At hole 9 of your first round, you need to be eating food to prepare you for the start of your second round. The food you eat between rounds is to maintain you for half of the second round, and the food at the start of the 2nd round is going to help you finish fueled up.

And the brain is a muscle, so we need some post game too.

Not talking burgers and stuff, but good things our body can turn into brainfood quickly with low round impact.

Such as eating some healthy crackers or granola through out the round, or wahtever you find your body needs.

Yeah eating enough is a really key to success in tourneys. Usually I am up pretty early and eat breakfast to get the stomach going so I dont need to do 2 in middle of round 1 haha

But since I eat around 6ish by then 10 when tourney starts I am running on fumes from breakfast. So I figured I needed to get some lighter food/snack in around 30min before tourney starts.

Maintaining energy is key to both actually performing throws but also not become apathic when you miss your first "has to" put...

 

[GeezerGolfDFW]

Play for the JOY, not the score. Give yourself grace, forgiveness. Mistakes are normal. Mistakes are how we learn.

Play to learn and ignore your score. Play with people who like to have fun. I started playing disc golf when I was 57 with a friend. I promise we had a few 99s for an 18 basket round more than a few times. It just gave us more exercise.

When you make a personal best, enjoy it. When you screw up, forget it and go on.

Someday I might make par for a full round on a difficult course, but if I don't I will still have fun.

 

[roblee]

Sounds like DG competition is not healthy for you. Find some pals to play casual no-score rounds.

 

[Nick Carroll]

Sharing something from an experience I'm going through right now. I tweaked my throwing arm, shoulder, and part of my back close to the shoulder (essentially tricep, rear deltoid, and lat) while stretching to reach something 7-8 days ago. Didn't think anything of it, went to play a round with a friend. Real quick those areas felt sore. But I wrote it off and ignored it, but noticed my accuracy was way down. It kills me that I didn't correlate it at the time to the soreness.

Then halfway through a tournament at a pro-level temp layout on a golf course, we're at the farthest part away from the start, and I aggravated this injury. The round started off rough and went downhill quick, and I barely managed to finish it. And I've taken nearly a week off to heal. I'll be able to play tomorrow, but that round I played last Friday had so many errors I was distraught. In hindsight that experience wasn't worth it, and I just recommend people pay attention to when they're sore, and be careful. It can turn into an injury perhaps quicker or easier than you might think. The decreased accuracy and distance are warning signs.

 

[Sheep]

Sharing something from an experience I'm going through right now. I tweaked my throwing arm, shoulder, and part of my back close to the shoulder (essentially tricep, rear deltoid, and lat) while stretching to reach something 7-8 days ago.

Reached deep in the back of my buddies truck to grab a hammer like 2 months ago.
Screwed my shoulder/back/everything up.
like... fking how?!

I didn't try and hyper extend anything, but no. you get older and you're like... wtf is this shit.

*sigh*

Feeling you on that one.

 

[Nick Carroll]

Reached deep in the back of my buddies truck to grab a hammer like 2 months ago.
Screwed my shoulder/back/everything up.
like... fking how?!

I didn't try and hyper extend anything, but no. you get older and you're like... wtf is this shit.

*sigh*

Feeling you on that one.

Yeah man, this was a silly injury for me, too. I was stretching my entire body, reaching up to open a ceiling A/C vent. Standing on my toes I could barely reach it. That was enough to tweak a few things. Now I know to look out for that.

 

[Kennets]

Amateurs.. one morning I sneezed so hard, that I blew out my lower back. Had to yell and wake up my 5 year old daughter, cause I were lying on the floor, screaming in agony.. when she finally got up and brought me my phone, I decided it was best not to call anyone.. I'm 36, not 82.. 6 years ago, I could deadlift 230 pounds at work whilst drinking my coffee, speaking on the phone and juggling a cigarette - now I gotta watch out if I gotta grap something from the floor

 

[Nick Carroll]

Amateurs.. one morning I sneezed so hard, that I blew out my lower back. Had to yell and wake up my 5 year old daughter, cause I were lying on the floor, screaming in agony.. when she finally got up and brought me my phone, I decided it was best not to call anyone.. I'm 36, not 82.. 6 years ago, I could deadlift 230 pounds at work whilst drinking my coffee, speaking on the phone and juggling a cigarette - now I gotta watch out if I gotta grap something from the floor

Yeah the random stuff is crazy. Several months ago I was in line at a convenient store, just standing. I tweaked my back literally just waiting in line. I didn't do anything. Standing still. Then (pop) I could feel a twinge in my lower back and I could barely walk. I was just about to play a round of disc golf with a friend, and I ended up just holding the camera, recording him play, instead of playing the duel we were going to do originally.

 

[BillFleming]

Pain. I live with it. My spine curves the wrong way (scoliosis) and that means one back muscle is stronger than the other. I'm currently working on figuring out a new putting style. I started as a straddle putter, but couldn't get enough power to make putts outside 15 feet. Then I did a normal, righthand, stagger putt with my right foot forward. That hasn't been working. As I putt my upper body turns and my right shoulder ends up pointing at the basket. That causes two issues, I miss my putt AND, more importantly, I putt stress on my back. After about 10 putts in a row, I can't putt any more. That's even with stretching. Playing a round isn't too bad....but my back does start aching after about 9 holes. I've tried putting left handed and that didn't work at all. I'm currently trying a left hand stagger putt, but putting with my right hand. It's been going well, but I've lost accuracy.

So, if you have consistent pain....figure out what is causing it and then see if there is something different that can be done to alleviate the pain. I know someone who had pain throwing backhands....but not all the time. They finally realized it was when they did run ups. They started doing all backhand throws from a standstill and haven't had the pain since.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

@BillFleming Hey Bill have you tried a splob putt? Rather than backhanding etc you basically bring it up like it's a horseshoe with a just past the side (towards front, finish with side) grip and kinda and toss a touch of spin on at level? Deadly inside 30' I can get 40 comfortably. I think envy's help haha. Maybe it's a pitch putt I dunno haha.

 

[Sheep]

@BillFleming Hey Bill have you tried a splob putt? Rather than backhanding etc you basically bring it up like it's a horseshoe with a just past the side grip and kinda and toss a touch of spin on at level? Deadly inside 30' I can get 40 comfortably. I think envy's help haha.

I do this putt to make people upset.
But its a good putt to have in the toolbox as well, there are actual times where just the ability to throw this putt can save you when you're around the green and normal putt is out, and high putt is out. but you can stand there and pop lob it out with that.