* Ace Member *
Diamond level trusted reviewer
- Sep 3, 2012
Hey, can I jump this?
No, that’s simply not true. I am required to observe my card mates and make sure the rules of the game are followed. There is a huge difference between picking a good spot where a disc went out of bounds, and reassuring my opponent that they may or may not be outside C1. If you don’t have a good way to determine where 10m is, you just shouldn’t step putt.
The Spirit of the Game
Disc golf is typically played without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the player to show sportsmanship, integrity, consideration for other players, and to abide by the Official Rules of Disc Golf. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be.
I suggest you read the Competition Manual, which in the Introduction specifically mandates that "the procedures and guidelines contained therein are required for all PDGA events," paying particular attention to The Spirit of the Game, which mandates:
If you can't be bothered to show sportsmanship, integrity, and consideriation for other player, you just shouldn't register for PDGA events.
There is nothing unsportsmanlike about telling someone to “walk it off.” My eyes are not a range finder or measuring tape. If you think it’s close, you should have a good way to determine if you are in our out. Also, if you are well beyond C1, 45’+, it’s just not necessary to ask every other hole.
I completely agree that there is nothing unsportsmanlike about telling someone to walk it off, when they ask the question. I just think the contrary is true too: there is nothing unsportsmanlike about asking the question. Their response to your answer might reflect unsportsmanlike behavior, like what it seemed happened in your story discussed in your original post. I think that seems like would fairly be worthy of at least a courtesy warning.There is nothing unsportsmanlike about telling someone to “walk it off.” My eyes are not a range finder or measuring tape. If you think it’s close, you should have a good way to determine if you are in our out. Also, if you are well beyond C1, 45’+, it’s just not necessary to ask every other hole.
To be fair, according to the PDGA 802.03.A.2 a player has "a reasonable amount of time to arrive at and determine the lie" before the 30s clock starts. If someone asks the question before approaching their lie, and they are told to step it off. I feel like it would arguable that stepping it off (if done with relative pace) would still constitute as a reasonable determination of their lie. Again, this is why I think being able to answer a simple question is fine for trying to keep up pace of play.Just tell them to step it off to make them use their energy to confirm the distance, maybe warning them a 30s time penalty is possible if they have a putting routine as well .
Honestly, this is my view on the matter. Again, as long as the person who asks the question is ready to accept that their card might deem them inside the circle. If they throw a hissy fit over the answer, I would likely give them a warning and mention they might just want to walk off their lie the next time. Of all the tantrums and unsportsmanlike behavior I've encountered during both tournament rounds and practice rounds, being asked if someone is outside the circle doesn't seem like a big deal.However, good sportsmanship dictates that you should not hide or lie about information that may lead to a penalty. Certainly, if they ask in/out you should give them your honest appraisal of whether you would call a stance violation if they jump- or step-putted from their marker.
I think your default answer should be "I don't know." Because, by your own admission, you don't know.My default answer is No. If you have to ask me, then you think you might be in C1. I'm not accurate at visually measuring distances and I don't carry a rangefinder.
There's a local player in Toledo, a certain veteran Am Masters player who used to be a 990+ guy, who asks on half his putt from 30-45. I love it because every time he asks, he misses. And he's an absolutely deadly jump putter.I love when someone is about 45 feet out and asks "am I in or out?" I love it!
I also love when someone is at 28-30 feet and they ask if they are in or out and I say "in" and they get mad. I love it!
I think the biggest problem is this player is habitually making tournaments less fun or even miserable for others. One of the biggest reasons I rarely player tournaments is because I always somehow get stuck with a certain player with the initials J.D. Not sure if that's who you are talking about, but I'm guessing you know who I am talking about.I begin with a story. Lead card, final round, scores were tight. A player who is notoriously problematic asks if he is outside the circle for a jump putt or not. He was right at the circle’s edge, no tassels in the ground.
I would say that I jump putt for the same reason you don't jump putt. The additional weight shift allows me to use a shorter motion, it moves a lot of the work from the smaller more error prone arm to the larger more consistent muscles in the legs.Jump/step putting is not my thing... I find the more mechanics that are involved, the higher probability something could go wrong and cause a miss.
I would say that, almost regardless of height (barring being simply *too small* for a 1m stride to feel comfortable at all), the most common error is steps that are too long. Sometimes a player I'm on a card with will take steps that are clearly well above 1m, and then just bemoan "Just inside, damn," before proceeding to putt standstill. I just watch unless they turn around after taking long strides and actually ask if they're inside/outside because it was close.Additionally, some players are tall (Gannon Buhr), some are short (Emerson Keith). Their steps are NOT the same length.