I agree with a lot of this but I'll just quote the stuff that resonates the most with me:
I think the wrist pronation in the backswing should ideally be wrist pronation in the backswing and early part of the swing, only as little as needed. I know a lot of pros go the extra mile here, and I'm certainly not judging them by doing the full briefcase thing, but I don't see how it's needed by most, or even by those who do it to great effect. It may just be a comfortability thing for them.
The wrist supination through the swing, through the hit and beyond, I also think should be only as little as needed for the shot. Clearly throwers will need to have nose up or down for certain types of shots, so that's a skill worth having, but it shouldn't be to compensate for bad form, but supplemental to good form.
With "pour the tea" we just need the disc down enough so it doesn't cause problems in the swing. Same for "curl the wrist." We just need it curled enough, even if some pros might go overboard for personal reasons.
I just know that when I personally am trying to "go full briefcase" it's a lot more frustrating for me as a person currently fixing my form. The results have been remarkably nose down throws - the likes I've never been able to achieve before, but every other metric got worse, per Tech Disc. And the throws themselves were not good because of it.
I think Sheep here is saying these cues could have some use, but they can also be overused, and that can be detrimental. Does Simon Lizotte have a problem doing the briefcase? Of course not. Is this what new players need to change in their swing? Any of these cues can be overdone to where they create problems in the process of solving others, and you end up with people needing to solve additional problems.
A lot of it is the shoulder posture that we need to correct.
We try and keep the elbow up, but there are 2 positions for the elbow, rotated up, and rotated down, we can move our arm in both positions similarly, but one is more powerful than the other.
We tend to over use our arm while throwing, thus rotating the shoulder socket up which isn't powerful. By trying to muscle the disc more our shoulder naturally wants to pull up and over vs down and through using different sets of muscles. You can see this in form checks where people have a really decent swing, but high drive shoulder and no distance.
All goes back to power of posture things.
But we need to also pour the tea somewhat, but also make sure our grip is good enough for the mobility of our wrist and forearm alignment. It's not necessarily complicated, but this is why when a lot of players slow down and stop trying so hard they get SOOO much more distance, they stop rotating the shoulder incorrectly and they don't throw their throwing posture off by trying to huck vs a clean smooth swing using aligned leverage points.
Im not going to say you need to supponate or turn keys to throw, but most people when they get their arm/body out of alignment will naturally pronate in the hit which directs all the power up, and when the disc rotates through it's nose up.
So, turn the key, I think, if explained in the correct context can help people who are pronating badly to get the right que as a training technique to learn the feel.
But as an actual throwing technique, this idea of trying to flip your wrist over or flip discs over your hand is not a wise que. I've heard from a few people trying this stuff hurting themselves already because it's not a natural motion. we need to train ourselves not to pronate and come over top the disc correctly to let the disc rotate in a fashion that is nose down without also getting ourselves out of alignment.
This shouldn't be a method of disc golf, but a way for us to help people understand the right feeling.
And that's the point of Stokleys video with throwing this weird chop over your shoulder annie into the ground, its teaching you to learn the neutral or slightly pronated wrist feel when your wrist pops on the correct line.
I thought it was the dumbest thing ever until I was throwing backhand force rollers and it clicked for me.
But if you try the briefcase as a dangle vs a grip and pronate, you'll find far more success with the dangle method because your body will be loose and relaxed when you grip and rip vs trying to hold on and rotate your forearm in the swing.
We gotta set our bodies up to work as natural as possible and direct it in the correct direction. The more tense you are throwing, the less your body is going to cooperate. Especially if you're over using muscle groups or doing something the body see's as dangerous, it will naturally try and protect itself. And this is where a lot of people run into struggles disc golfing. And its part of good coaching to identify what part of your body is causing the bad chain reaction to get there.
A lot of coaches out there can identify what is wrong, but not always what the root cause is of that problem. Does it go all the way back to the brace, is it a posture thing. Who knows, you gotta really look and learn to back read all the movements and understand the posture and kinetic chain each player generates, because everyone's swing is unique to an extent.