Trying to get my backhand form to 400ft and beyond

[Brychanus]

Yes, the DF videos are in slo motion.

I've been watching your "Drill" playlist videos on YouTube. This one was a little eye opening:


I think I may have been way too aggressive with trying to sit or fall. This guy makes it seem like a really small fall. When you fall or sit down, does it feel you are moving around your trail side (like around your back) towards the target? And the weight immediately goes into your front foot heel?

I think I have been trying to do this movement from my front (as in chest). Which is causing me to get closer to the "ball" and over-extend early. It kind of seems natural to "roll your butt" towards the target after doing the movement I described before.

Here's my video (in normal speed):


I know my side bend is inadequate, and I'm probably a little too far over my toes still. But I wanted to see what the "move around my back towards the target" looked like and get your thoughts.

The plant leg/hip alignment was trending better a bit after the start of the video.

In front of tee view, your head is waay too far out over your toes- inside swing drill. If you dropped off the frame to swing/throw your balance would stagger off toward the side of the tee.

I think you should try to keep your upper body more upright and preserve the side bend, but more Inside posture.

I think doing Inside Swing and DFD drills together in the same session is very valuable in general.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, head way too over toes. Note how my head is inline to front foot.

Also note when I drop into transition my rear side goes into side bend as the frontside gets pulled taut. So my trail elbow is almost going into my back pocket.

 

[Dundee]

I just saw this video about upper body rotation.



This applies to disc golf as well, right? It looks like I've been doing the incorrect example in the video where the player just rotates level to the ground. It looks like I don't get enough vertical separation with the shoulders. I know this has been mentioned recently in the thread, but whenever I tried to do it, I wasn't really understanding how to make the movement. And to try and get that movement, I ended up way over my toes.

Does making this vertical movement with the shoulders create side bend?

 

[Dundee]

Haven't posted here in awhile. Just been watching a bunch of golf videos and working on rotating on a spiral like in the last video I linked.

Another feel question came up today, completely unrelated though. During your reachback, do y'all feel a stretch in your chest area? I was thinking it may actually be my oblique that I'm feeling. I noticed recently that I lose that stretch when I go into the swing. Should I be maintaining that feeling through the forward swing? It feels to be interconnected with letting my hips "lead the throw".



Watching this video, I've been doing the bad example at the start of the video. I have never felt what they are referring to with the baseball swing. Pushing his lead hip back and away, around his body. I'm wondering if "leading the throw" with my hips is creating the counterweight they are referring to.

I'll make a video showing this tomorrow, but wanted to see what y'all thought

 

[Dundee]

Here's video of me doing the door frame drill again. I think I'm still a little too far over my toes?



I was focusing on trying to sit into my front side and rotate. I think I'm actually getting lower in my throw now. It feels jerky though

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, too over toes, so your posture is not setup properly stacked inline with front foot/ankle. Note how I'm still in good posture to hold a heavy barbell on shoulders, I'm turning back centered and dropping targetward.

 

[Dundee]

Yeah, too over toes, so your posture is not setup properly stacked inline with front foot/ankle. Note how I'm still in good posture to hold a heavy barbell on shoulders, I'm turning back centered and dropping targetward.

View attachment 331921

Here's another video. I think I'm less over my toes in this one.



I am a little confused though. I thought we want our lead shoulder to be lower than our rear shoulder in the backswing? You wouldn't be able to keep a barbell on your shoulders if you have uneven shoulders.

Does moving your butt targetward feel like your rear side is going behind you toward the target? That's what I felt in this video.

What about your lead knee position in this drill? Should it be like in the standstill video you have?

 

[sidewinder22]

I am a little confused though. I thought we want our lead shoulder to be lower than our rear shoulder in the backswing? You wouldn't be able to keep a barbell on your shoulders if you have uneven shoulders.

Does moving your butt targetward feel like your rear side is going behind you toward the target? That's what I felt in this video.

What about your lead knee position in this drill? Should it be like in the standstill video you have?

Lead shoulder swings in a pendulum or tilted spiral up down back up to the top of backswing. By having you turn back level like with barbell I'm just taking the tilted spiral part out of this and trying to get you into a different posture/balance. This is a drill so try to not think too much, but you need to play around with different positions and feel how you can change/max your leverage efficiency.

Yes rear side going behind, but also down - which I think you are missing the down part as your trail shoulder stays high and your lead side is dropping instead.

Lead knee will bend toward toes and extend toward heel depending on where you are in the drill.

 

[Dundee]

Lead shoulder swings in a pendulum or tilted spiral up down back up to the top of backswing. By having you turn back level like with barbell I'm just taking the tilted spiral part out of this and trying to get you into a different posture/balance. This is a drill so try to not think too much, but you need to play around with different positions and feel how you can change/max your leverage efficiency.

Yes rear side going behind, but also down - which I think you are missing the down part as your trail shoulder stays high and your lead side is dropping instead.

Lead knee will bend toward toes and extend toward heel depending on where you are in the drill.

I've been thinking about my form more in a different way after seeing this YouTube golf video:



The video overall wasn't that helpful for disc golf, but at 1:30 he talks about what your lead arm in a golf swing would do if you only had one hand on the club. This reminded me of how earlier on in this thread I could never find the hit point when doing the hammer swing drills.

I think this related to when I was first learning and stumbled across Overthrow on YouTube. I'm not sure if their video is still up, but they initially talked about getting the disc to your right pec (left pec for righties) for the power pocket. I'm not sure if I just misunderstood or what (probably did), but I think that was how I started having the hit point problem. The disc would get stuck at my right pec and I'd open my chest up the target to try and release the disc while rounding.

As you've mentioned a lot earlier in this thread, my throws looked like I was throwing max anhyzer shots, and I think that's because it was the only way my body knew to get the disc out with any sort of real distance. I never developed the hit point.

Do you think it'd be worth while working on that? I'm wondering if fixing that would affect my posture because than my body would realize I need to be set up differently for me to have that hit point.

If so, how do you develop the hit point? It feels so weird to try and get the disc out towards the target on my left pec , basically into the starting position of the Beato drill.

 

[sidewinder22]

Slash thru the tree on way to release.

 

[Dundee]

I took some time off from trying to fix my form to just enjoy playing the game. But I decided to come back. My form has been all over the place.

Here's another attempt at the door frame drill:


I was trying to keep my body angled with my front leg like in one of your early posts. Thoughts?

 

[sidewinder22]

I think you setup with rear foot too far from door frame and are stuck in the drill and can't really shift your mAss around while holding on.
Your elbow should roughly be over the ankle, yours a bit behind it. Be more dynamic in the drill, moving feet and mAss around. You should get turned further back while shifting forward.

 

[Dundee]

I think you setup with rear foot too far from door frame and are stuck in the drill and can't really shift your mAss around while holding on.
Your elbow should roughly be over the ankle, yours a bit behind it. Be more dynamic in the drill, moving feet and mAss around. You should get turned further back while shifting forward.

View attachment 351607

I do feel stuck in the drill. It feels like all the pressure I'm putting to pull on the wall is in my right leg. It never gets to the left leg. So I'm stuck trying to purposely get it over there and awkwardly moving through the "throw". Should I feel anything in my left leg?

 

[itlnstln]

I do feel stuck in the drill. It feels like all the pressure I'm putting to pull on the wall is in my right leg. It never gets to the left leg. So I'm stuck trying to purposely get it over there and awkwardly moving through the "throw". Should I feel anything in my left leg?

The left leg should de-weight as you pull on the doorframe. If your hand were to slip off the frame, you would ideally sling yourself into the one leg drill

Also, don't use the doorframe to hold yourself up. You should be balanced toward the front leg while the doorframe pulls your arm and creates tension in your back/lats/core/etc. If your hand were to let go of the door frame, the tension in your core should swing your upper body around, not make you fall over

Another way to think about it is, instead of a door frame, try imagining a kettlebell lodged in the wall. You want to stay firmly planted while you use your core to pull the kettlebell out of the wall. Thinking about it this way, it might be more obvious how SW gets into that position in the pics a couple of posts up and why yours looks a little off/inefficient

EDIT:

Better option, close the door and be on the the side of the door with the frame opposite of the swing of the door so that you're pulling the door closed (not pushing the door closed). Grab the doorknob in a similar position to the door frame drill and start pulling the doorknob (gently!) as if you were going to try rip the door off the hinges and through the doorframe. Notice how you automatically shift over your right foot butt-first and build tension in your back and core right before the point where you'd exert your maximum pull effort? That's what you're looking for

 

[Dundee]

The left leg should de-weight as you pull on the doorframe. If your hand were to slip off the frame, you would ideally sling yourself into the one leg drill

Also, don't use the doorframe to hold yourself up. You should be balanced toward the front leg while the doorframe pulls your arm and creates tension in your back/lats/core/etc. If your hand were to let go of the door frame, the tension in your core should swing your upper body around, not make you fall over

Another way to think about it is, instead of a door frame, try imagining a kettlebell lodged in the wall. You want to stay firmly planted while you use your core to pull the kettlebell out of the wall. Thinking about it this way, it might be more obvious how SW gets into that position in the pics a couple of posts up and why yours looks a little off/inefficient

EDIT:

Better option, close the door and be on the the side of the door with the frame opposite of the swing of the door so that you're pulling the door closed (not pushing the door closed). Grab the doorknob in a similar position to the door frame drill and start pulling the doorknob (gently!) as if you were going to try rip the door off the hinges and through the doorframe. Notice how you automatically shift over your right foot butt-first and build tension in your back and core right before the point where you'd exert your maximum pull effort? That's what you're looking for

When you say de-weight your left leg, do you mean your rear leg? I'm a lefty so my left leg is my front leg. If so, how are you de-weighting your rear leg? When I'm pulling on the door frame, I can feel so much pressure in my rear leg. I don't know how to de-weight it while also pulling on the door frame.

 

[itlnstln]

When you say de-weight your left leg, do you mean your rear leg? I'm a lefty so my left leg is my front leg. If so, how are you de-weighting your rear leg? When I'm pulling on the door frame, I can feel so much pressure in my rear leg. I don't know how to de-weight it while also pulling on the door frame.

Yes, sorry, reverse all the left/right stuff

Try the doorknob version I mention; it's a little easier to grasp, IMO. If you're feeling the weight in your back leg, you're pulling yourself to the door. You want to pull the door to you. When you do the latter, you will lean into the pull and brace on the front leg. Think more tug-o-war

 

[Dundee]

The left leg should de-weight as you pull on the doorframe. If your hand were to slip off the frame, you would ideally sling yourself into the one leg drill

Also, don't use the doorframe to hold yourself up. You should be balanced toward the front leg while the doorframe pulls your arm and creates tension in your back/lats/core/etc. If your hand were to let go of the door frame, the tension in your core should swing your upper body around, not make you fall over

Another way to think about it is, instead of a door frame, try imagining a kettlebell lodged in the wall. You want to stay firmly planted while you use your core to pull the kettlebell out of the wall. Thinking about it this way, it might be more obvious how SW gets into that position in the pics a couple of posts up and why yours looks a little off/inefficient

EDIT:

Better option, close the door and be on the the side of the door with the frame opposite of the swing of the door so that you're pulling the door closed (not pushing the door closed). Grab the doorknob in a similar position to the door frame drill and start pulling the doorknob (gently!) as if you were going to try rip the door off the hinges and through the doorframe. Notice how you automatically shift over your right foot butt-first and build tension in your back and core right before the point where you'd exert your maximum pull effort? That's what you're looking for

Also regarding your edit. I am set up in a way like this already. If I close the door in my videos, I would be trying to pull the door closed. When doing the door frame drill, should I be set up in a way that I would be pushing the door shut?

 

[itlnstln]

I think you setup with rear foot too far from door frame and are stuck in the drill and can't really shift your mAss around while holding on.
Your elbow should roughly be over the ankle, yours a bit behind it. Be more dynamic in the drill, moving feet and mAss around. You should get turned further back while shifting forward.

View attachment 351607

@Dundee , you're set up correctly. In this picture, grab the door handle behind you, and try to pull the door through the door frame. Your knees will be a little more bent, obviously, but you should get that feeling of how SW looks in the same picture

 

[Dundee]

Yes, sorry, reverse all the left/right stuff

Try the doorknob version I mention; it's a little easier to grasp, IMO. If you're feeling the weight in your back leg, you're pulling yourself to the door. You want to pull the door to you. When you do the latter, you will lean into the pull and brace on the front leg. Think more tug-o-war

There has to be some major disconnect in my mind on this. I feel like I'm pulling the door frame to me.

 

[itlnstln]

Maybe this will help:

As these people are pulling the rope, they're using their mass to lean backwards into the pull for leverage. In your picture you'd be leaning forward, opposite of these folks. You might be pulling, but it's all arm

Now, TBF, pulling a truck with a rope isn't quite the same as throwing a disc. But what we are trying to feel is the same sense of resistance created by the inertia of the disc. We want the disc to be the truck in this analogy