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[Innova] The secret to choosing the right Destroyer

doth_savek said:
https://youtu.be/ATdgZfZpxZQ

I hope this belongs here and can help some of you to find the right Destroyer for you!
Click to expand...

Very cool. I just looked and my 175 Ricky Destroyer has the 3 grind marks just like my 2 line AJ. the new Made in the USA Destroyers have no markings at all. Very informative and confirms what most of us thought. thanks for doing the actual legwork though! :clap:
 
doth_savek said:
https://youtu.be/ATdgZfZpxZQ

I hope this belongs here and can help some of you to find the right Destroyer for you!
Click to expand...

Good observation. I remember reading a post (here, I think) from a guy with a lot of plastic injection molding knowledge. The bottom line is they are not using different molds. The differences you're seeing are a result of different plastic blends being used that have different shrink rates when they cool. The wing of the disc contains the most plastic, and therefore that is the part of the disc that cools the slowest, with the inside of the wing being the last bit to cool. If you have a plastic blend that has a larger shrink rate then as the center of that wing cools it "sucks" the wing in as it shrinks, which will exaggerate the concave portion on the bottom as well as the top of the wing (ever notice how some discs have more pronounced curves on top while others are more flat, and some even have little dimples/grooves right over the wing?).

What I really don't remember from that long post is whether the shrink rate was purely a function of the plastic blend or if the cooling time also affected the shrink rate. Maybe a disc that cooled faster also shrank more, for example. This is why there are all these run differences - the warehouse conditions where the discs are made are not necessarily climate controlled. In the middle of summer the plastic will cool slower due to higher temperatures inside the production facility, in the winter the plastic may cool faster due to lower temperatures. Either way, your overstable Destroyer examples are the ones where greatest shrink occurred, your understable Destroyer examples are the least shrink occurred as the plastic cooled.
 
Nicely done...looks like the way I've been judging them by eye has been working out. When I looked at the pictures without the measurements I could tell which was beefcake vs. straight vs. flippy for a Destroyer, then you put numbers to it well.

I have similar power to you and it's nice to see you get such a big difference between them like I have found. Flex shots through a hurricane vs. hyzer flips for huge distance...definitely not the same slot in the bag for some of these haha
 
SD86 said:
25 minutes is too long. Can someone just give us the Cliffs Notes here?
Click to expand...

If the bottom of the wing is flat or convex like an FD or Roadrunner, it'll be straight or have turn. If the bottom of the wing has a concave flare to it, it'll be beefy. Lots of flare, and it'll be like a speed 12 Firebird and cost you tons of distance if you don't have a massive arm.

Don't pay attention to stamp, pay attention to shape.
 
notroman said:
Good observation. I remember reading a post (here, I think) from a guy with a lot of plastic injection molding knowledge. The bottom line is they are not using different molds. The differences you're seeing are a result of different plastic blends being used that have different shrink rates when they cool.
Click to expand...

What about the grind marks? Checked my AJ SD and lo and behold, there it is. Like crime scene evidence. 4 block grind marks.

To the OP, was there any correlation between wing shape and the mold it came from (let's assume the grind marks are clear evidence of at least two molds in production)?
 
notroman said:
Good observation. I remember reading a post (here, I think) from a guy with a lot of plastic injection molding knowledge. The bottom line is they are not using different molds. The differences you're seeing are a result of different plastic blends being used that have different shrink rates when they cool. The wing of the disc contains the most plastic, and therefore that is the part of the disc that cools the slowest, with the inside of the wing being the last bit to cool. If you have a plastic blend that has a larger shrink rate then as the center of that wing cools it "sucks" the wing in as it shrinks, which will exaggerate the concave portion on the bottom as well as the top of the wing (ever notice how some discs have more pronounced curves on top while others are more flat, and some even have little dimples/grooves right over the wing?).

What I really don't remember from that long post is whether the shrink rate was purely a function of the plastic blend or if the cooling time also affected the shrink rate. Maybe a disc that cooled faster also shrank more, for example. This is why there are all these run differences - the warehouse conditions where the discs are made are not necessarily climate controlled. In the middle of summer the plastic will cool slower due to higher temperatures inside the production facility, in the winter the plastic may cool faster due to lower temperatures. Either way, your overstable Destroyer examples are the ones where greatest shrink occurred, your understable Destroyer examples are the least shrink occurred as the plastic cooled.
Click to expand...

Shrink will be affected by a lot of different factors. Plastic blend, cooling time, ambient temperature, and orientation during cooling will all affect the shrink after the part comes out of the mold. The molding equipment parameters will make a big difference. How hot the plastic is, how hot the mold is, what injection speeds and pressures are being used, how long the part is allowed to cool within the mold before being ejected, etc. There are dozens of factors.

My (somewhat educated) guess is that the wing profile is related to how long the disc cools in the mold. I've seen issues in the past where thick parts were not allowed to cool in the mold for long enough and something similar happened.

When the part is ejected from the mold quickly after injection, the outside has solidified. But the inside can still be semi-liquid and under pressure from the molding process. This can make the part swell or even burst. I assume this is what's happening in the wing because it's so thick in relation to the rest of the disc. It's puffing out slightly and losing the normal concave wing shape.

Just like how some wizards are more or less puffy, or have higher/lower shoulders. It's not like they are changing the mold with each run. It's all molding and cooling process variation.
 
Hank Scorpio said:
What about the grind marks? Checked my AJ SD and lo and behold, there it is. Like crime scene evidence. 4 block grind marks.

To the OP, was there any correlation between wing shape and the mold it came from (let's assume the grind marks are clear evidence of at least two molds in production)?
Click to expand...

That's just one of 3 pieces of a disc mold, and it's not hard to polish out the marks off the mold piece if they decided to clean it up. Even if they did replace that piece, it's very unlikely they replaced the other two pieces that actually control the shape of the wing.
 
Destroyers really have evolved through the years. I figure I've thrown probably 30-40 different star Destroyers in every mold variation since they've been released. The only one I haven't seen or tried yet is the new Wysocki one.

I guess what it boils down to is what you're looking for in a Destroyer. Do you want the disc to glide and have a little high speed turn, or not? I agree you should never buy a Destroyer sight unseen. Make sure you can hold the disc and give it a good look before you buy.

My personal favorite star Destroyers are first run protos. They seemed to combine all the elements that make the mold great. Some dome, some high speed turn, and great glide. The proto star Destroyers were what hooked me on the mold in the first place (as I'm sure was the case with many other people). I've probably thrown close to 10 proto star Destroyers, and I never found one I didn't like. At 420' power they'll show some noticeable high speed turn before fading assertively at the end of flight.

The run of Destroyers immediately after the first run was also a good one. They had the normal stamp with no one's name on them. These ones are still around, but cost a good deal of money now.

IMO the Destroyer mold started getting erratic during the Avery Jenkins runs. I threw a few of those and noticed I just didn't like them as much as prior Destroyers. The AJ ones seemed a little flatter, more gummy, and flippier. I know these Destroyers sell for big bucks today, but I frankly don't think they're that great.

Next, we have the McBeth star Destroyer. What a franken-mold. You literally had no clue what you were getting here. The first couple McBeth star Destroyers I came across LOOKED great. They were good, stiff plastic, and domey. OMG were they overstable and glideless. As later runs of McBeth Destroyers came out they seemed to become flatter and gummier. I've actually thrown some very good McBeth Destroyers, but they're not always easy to find. The flat, gummy ones tend to be sluggish and beefy. Not overly glidey. I wasn't a fan of the gummy plastic. I figure I've thrown about 15 McBeth star Destroyers. WIDE variance here. I think this was the time people really started getting irritated that Destroyers were all over the place. I've never seen a really flippy McBeth. They definitely trend toward beefy.

The last iteration of star Destroyer I've thrown was the Brinster splatter star. Great plastic and a wonderful looking and feeling disc. Somewhat stiff with a nice dome. MASSIVELY beefy and glideless. IDK if they're all this way, but I couldn't get much out of that Destroyer.

My rankings in order of preference:

Proto star Destroyer
2nd run star Destroyer (PFN, no name)
Avery Jenkins
Paul McBeth

I hate to rank the McBeth last, but they're just all over the place.
 
Owensjef said:
Easiest way... Buy outlaws
Click to expand...

I like the Outlaw, but that disc seems to suffer the same issues as Destroyers. I've thrown Outlaws from flippy to MASSIVELY overstable. The overstable ones are unpleasant and extremely unsatisfying to throw.

An Outlaw with some high speed turn is great, but I've found they trend toward beefy. I've thrown about 6 of them and 4 were way overstable.
 
Owensjef said:
Easiest way... Buy outlaws
Click to expand...

However for Destroyers the Champion Destroyer seems to be the way to go unless you get bad plastic and in some of the last runs from 2018 and newest of 2019 the Champion Destroyer had the bubbles in the plastic though the mold felt the same and lucky for the ones I got my brother the bubbles were deeper in the rim. Just get the low dome or odd dome ones as the more domed Champion Destroyers as well as heavy over 170-171 grams take way too much initial power to get in the air that most of the time they will do the actual shape of a unstrung Longbow weapon, still useful for big wind.
 
Twmccoy said:
Destroyers really have evolved through the years. I figure I've thrown probably 30-40 different star Destroyers in every mold variation since they've been released. The only one I haven't seen or tried yet is the new Wysocki one.

I guess what it boils down to is what you're looking for in a Destroyer. Do you want the disc to glide and have a little high speed turn, or not? I agree you should never buy a Destroyer sight unseen. Make sure you can hold the disc and give it a good look before you buy.

My personal favorite star Destroyers are first run protos. They seemed to combine all the elements that make the mold great. Some dome, some high speed turn, and great glide. The proto star Destroyers were what hooked me on the mold in the first place (as I'm sure was the case with many other people). I've probably thrown close to 10 proto star Destroyers, and I never found one I didn't like. At 420' power they'll show some noticeable high speed turn before fading assertively at the end of flight.

The run of Destroyers immediately after the first run was also a good one. They had the normal stamp with no one's name on them. These ones are still around, but cost a good deal of money now.

IMO the Destroyer mold started getting erratic during the Avery Jenkins runs. I threw a few of those and noticed I just didn't like them as much as prior Destroyers. The AJ ones seemed a little flatter, more gummy, and flippier. I know these Destroyers sell for big bucks today, but I frankly don't think they're that great.

Next, we have the McBeth star Destroyer. What a franken-mold. You literally had no clue what you were getting here. The first couple McBeth star Destroyers I came across LOOKED great. They were good, stiff plastic, and domey. OMG were they overstable and glideless. As later runs of McBeth Destroyers came out they seemed to become flatter and gummier. I've actually thrown some very good McBeth Destroyers, but they're not always easy to find. The flat, gummy ones tend to be sluggish and beefy. Not overly glidey. I wasn't a fan of the gummy plastic. I figure I've thrown about 15 McBeth star Destroyers. WIDE variance here. I think this was the time people really started getting irritated that Destroyers were all over the place. I've never seen a really flippy McBeth. They definitely trend toward beefy.

The last iteration of star Destroyer I've thrown was the Brinster splatter star. Great plastic and a wonderful looking and feeling disc. Somewhat stiff with a nice dome. MASSIVELY beefy and glideless. IDK if they're all this way, but I couldn't get much out of that Destroyer.

My rankings in order of preference:

Proto star Destroyer
2nd run star Destroyer (PFN, no name)
Avery Jenkins
Paul McBeth

I hate to rank the McBeth last, but they're just all over the place.
Click to expand...

From what I have seen so far the Star Ricky W model is the worst they have the curved wing to the lower weights under 169 grams and 169-175 grams are straight winged. Seems that Innova is catering to Ricky and having the mold fly the same stability for all the molds. Some of the New model have both tooling on them and I prefer the curved wing that feels like the Wraith wing the way the Destroyer mold was originally made in very late 2007 but I get the Champion Destroyer as the Dome is way to inconstant on the Star version, still inconstant on the Champion but not as bad and you know too that the domey take more power to throw as they just take more power to get the speed up, can be like throwing a 13 speed instead.
 
Last edited:
Why do people keep referring to "runs" of Destroyers that cover years worth of discs? Destroyers are one of, if not THE most sold discs. I don't know Innova's production schedule, but I guarantee they make new ones AT LEAST multiple times per year. I wouldn't be surprised if they mold up new ones every week, maybe even every day or two. Every time they make a new batch is a new "run", regardless of what's stamped on the front.

Also, in relation to that video, and his observation that the rim shape varies throughout the rim on each disc; I have been measuring the rim width in various discs over the last several months. In doing so, I have found that the rim width on Destroyers varies throughout the rim significantly more than on any other disc I've measured.
 
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