I was rocking a Hades as my flippy slot for the longest time before I swapped it out for a combination of this Grace and a Star Mamba. It was kinda flattish. Had noticeable shoulder raise, then a flat top. Likewise I used Enigmas as my primary workhorse drivers a while back. Both really flat. Fresh out of the box I looved the Enigma, but once I beat it in, I started not liking it as much. It seemed to turn into the ground moreso than hold a gradual drift like it did out of the box. At first I thought it was real glidey, but now I don't think as much. The Hades was pretty glidey, but I dunno maybe I just gel better with the 11 speed Grace. I've pumped my Hades out to 360-370 on Hyzer Flips every once in a while, but never to 400 like the Grace. Havocs were a disc I've always wanted to try.