2019 Pros Switching Sponsors Official Thread

[Halcón]

How many discs does innova sell a year?

If I had to guess, I would say easily over a million. Maybe two million. But numbers even higher than this wouldn't be surprising.

If Innova only did $5.1 in sales a year that would not even cover its payroll much less factory space , machinery , distribution etc. Today $51 in sales for a manufacturing company makes it very small company.

Would you estimate around 5-7 million discs sold a year? (I think a good chunk of their revenue comes in basket sales)

Turbosteve also thought it was much higher, basing it on tourney discs.

 

[rhatton1]

Wow, you're right. Too many beers, my bad.

I was having a tough time believing they were pulling in the figures for $5.1m in sales. $140,000+ a day is down right laughable.

Their national partners listed on the Innova website have over 1000 stores before you even consider Walmart and Play it again and every other dealer from the small service station to the golf clubs (some of which are doing $100'sk annually in turnover in retail sales on Innova alone I was shocked to find) to the pro shops near the heavy use courses.

From a retail perspective over here in the UK a retailer expects to make at least £1.5k a year on a square foot of space and will swap a line out for any less, I imagine it's fairly similar in the states, possibly swapping dollars to pounds 1 to 1 to equate with slightly lower land and rent prices.

Have a look at the racking in any of the national partner stores and work out how many foot of floor space has been allocated to Innova. Then use the dealer function on the Innova website to work out how many dealers there are around the country. You can see then the numbers are biiig. Retailers are not stocking product that doesn't shift. Innova has a looot of retailers.

All this before you factor in competitions/course installations/schools programs and crucially overseas sales which I would guess make up around 10% of turnover but growing rapidly.

I'm not convinced by as much as $52 million a year yet but I would buy $30m plus happily. With around 150 employees that equates to a turnover of 200k per employee which actually sounds about right for a growing manufacturing company

 

[DiscNinja33]

Their national partners listed on the Innova website have over 1000 stores before you even consider Walmart and Play it again and every other dealer from the small service station to the golf clubs (some of which are doing $100'sk annually in turnover in retail sales on Innova alone I was shocked to find) to the pro shops near the heavy use courses.



From a retail perspective over here in the UK a retailer expects to make at least £1.5k a year on a square foot of space and will swap a line out for any less, I imagine it's fairly similar in the states, possibly swapping dollars to pounds 1 to 1 to equate with slightly lower land and rent prices.



Have a look at the racking in any of the national partner stores and work out how many foot of floor space has been allocated to Innova. Then use the dealer function on the Innova website to work out how many dealers there are around the country. You can see then the numbers are biiig. Retailers are not stocking product that doesn't shift. Innova has a looot of retailers.



All this before you factor in competitions/course installations/schools programs and crucially overseas sales which I would guess make up around 10% of turnover but growing rapidly.



I'm not convinced by as much as $52 million a year yet but I would buy $30m plus happily. With around 150 employees that equates to a turnover of 200k per employee which actually sounds about right for a growing manufacturing company

I can't verify any of this, but it all sounds too in depth to be wrong.

TLR Innova makes bank.

 

[riltim]

Their national partners listed on the Innova website have over 1000 stores before you even consider Walmart and Play it again and every other dealer from the small service station to the golf clubs (some of which are doing $100'sk annually in turnover in retail sales on Innova alone I was shocked to find) to the pro shops near the heavy use courses.

From a retail perspective over here in the UK a retailer expects to make at least £1.5k a year on a square foot of space and will swap a line out for any less, I imagine it's fairly similar in the states, possibly swapping dollars to pounds 1 to 1 to equate with slightly lower land and rent prices.

Have a look at the racking in any of the national partner stores and work out how many foot of floor space has been allocated to Innova. Then use the dealer function on the Innova website to work out how many dealers there are around the country. You can see then the numbers are biiig. Retailers are not stocking product that doesn't shift. Innova has a looot of retailers.

All this before you factor in competitions/course installations/schools programs and crucially overseas sales which I would guess make up around 10% of turnover but growing rapidly.

I'm not convinced by as much as $52 million a year yet but I would buy $30m plus happily. With around 150 employees that equates to a turnover of 200k per employee which actually sounds about right for a growing manufacturing company

Do you think the $8M a year is accurate for Discraft?

 

[DiscNinja33]

Do you think the $8M a year is accurate for Discraft?

I do. I live in Michigan and it's still WAY easier to find Innova, Trilogy, and almost MVP anymore. Simply anecdotal evidence, but you'd think their presence would be greater in their home state.

 

[rhatton1]

Do you think the $8M a year is accurate for Discraft?

Honestly no idea. I've never really paid Discraft much attention up to the last month, so they've done something right recently with these Paul rumours!

Doing a couple of quick googles and going off what little I do know of them, I would suspect it sounds about right with a large chunk of that being ultimate sales and the disc golf side only being a couple of million a year.

Their international coverage is much smaller and I'd suspect they are someway behind Trilogy now in the Disc golf stakes but larger still as a company. I believe they are only one warehouse albeit a big one (80 x 50 meters according to google maps (half the size of Innovas Ontario warehouse though) and around 20 employees which going along the "Ultimates more profitable" conjecture with a turnover of 400k per employee gives you 8 million. I've got way less reliable figures on any of this though.


I'm intrigued to see what they do now in the sport.

 

[ru4por]

I do. I live in Michigan and it's still WAY easier to find Innova, Trilogy, and almost MVP anymore. Simply anecdotal evidence, but you'd think their presence would be greater in their home state.

While I cannot speak to the entire state, this is not true of Southeast Michigan. While many stores carry extensive varieties, nearly all carry close to a full line of Discraft. They also still sponsor a good share of the events in this corner of the state. Hence, the reason PM is signing with them.

*attempts to bring the outlandish speculation back to pros signing and away from the exact same wild speculation of manufacturer revenue.*

 

[Jouni]

Just some perspective, Innova champion Europe, i.e. DiscGolfPark, Discmania, InnovaStore, Disc Golf World Tour, and
Spin18 had revenue around 4.3 million euros in 2015 with around 30000€ profits.: https://www.asiakastieto.fi/yritykset/fi/innova-champion-europe-oy/17237370/taloustiedot

Newer information shows only profit, which was only 35000€ in 2016 and 130000€ in 2017.

 

[snappyj]

While I cannot speak to the entire state, this is not true of Southeast Michigan. While many stores carry extensive varieties, nearly all carry close to a full line of Discraft. They also still sponsor a good share of the events in this corner of the state. Hence, the reason PM is signing with them.

*attempts to bring the outlandish speculation back to pros signing and away from the exact same wild speculation of manufacturer revenue.*

There are definitely a few people with full Discraft bags around here, but Innova still dominates SE Michigan, at least for putters and drivers. Everyone has buzzzes, though.

 

[DiscNinja33]

There are definitely a few people with full Discraft bags around here, but Innova still dominates SE Michigan, at least for putters and drivers. Everyone has buzzzes, though.

Mid-Michigan is the same. A couple dudes I know with Discraft bags, but lots of Buzzzes and Zones.

 

[ThrowBot]

Just some perspective, Innova champion Europe, i.e. DiscGolfPark, Discmania, InnovaStore, Disc Golf World Tour, and
Spin18 had revenue around 4.3 million euros in 2015 with around 30000€ profits.: https://www.asiakastieto.fi/yritykset/fi/innova-champion-europe-oy/17237370/taloustiedot

Newer information shows only profit, which was only 35000€ in 2016 and 130000€ in 2017.

Egadz, actual data!!

Remember that they were pouring money into DGWT during 2016 and 2017, with no chance of turning a profit on that venture early on. So that helps to explain the poor net showing those years.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that their net profit was much higher in 2015, and will be again in 2018.

 

[infinitedylan]

This whole thread has been pretty enjoyable, haha.

 

[hurricaine]

This whole thread has been pretty enjoyable, haha.

TELL US WHERE MCBETH IS GOING!!!

 

[ThrowBot]

He's going to sign with Infinite Discs and throw a mixed bag.

McExodus. McPharoh. Etc.

 

[jjmiller]

This thread makes me really want Discraft to pick up someone. Kevin Jones would be great. Reid Frescura absolutely crushes and is from Michigan. And someone posted in another thread that Big Jerm recently said that he misses the Zone.

Discraft, go sign some new names that we might actually get to see on some Jomez coverage!

 

[pearlybakerbest]

who wouldn't miss the zone

 

[kerplunk]

TELL US WHERE MCBETH IS GOING!!!

Who was that company with the Hooters girls at their showcase tournament and that threatened to sue their customers with a fake lawyer? He's going there, that's the buzz on the dark web. His caddy at Las Vegas will be Stormy Daniels.

 

[rd.bittle]

Salient??

Woohoo, finally some real sponsors in DG. Doctors and stuff...

 

[teemkey]

Salient??

Woohoo, finally some real sponsors in DG. Doctors and stuff...

Salient was very proud to use scientists, not hippies, to design their molds. And McBeth is definitely not a hippie; so, you know, there's that.

 

[broomerang]

Salient was very proud to use scientists, not hippies, to design their molds. And McBeth is definitely not a hippie; so, you know, there's that.

Tell us more about this stand up company.