2019 Pros Switching Sponsors Official Thread

[ThunderEagle]

I really don't think it works like this, or maybe I just HOPE it doesn't work like this.

Disc golf discs are not a commodity, they have unique characteristics that make them more or less suited for individual players. There is no fashion aspect, nobody is showing off their sweet new McBeth destroyer like they would a pair of Jordans.

But if course the millennial brain is a damaged and confusing thing. Maybe they actually do purchase discs like a fashion accessory.

Really? You don't think 50% or greater (much greater IMO) of golfers chucking a Destroyer have no business with one anywhere but on a wall?

I watched at guy at doubles once chuck a Destroyer on a 318' hole, complain that it wasn't fading back when he rounded like mad AND threw it on an anny angle and ended up outside of circle 2.

Destroyers are sold because it Paul throws them, and were sold before because Avery threw them, or Anthon, or Brinster, etc.

Some discs are just good for about anyone. Roc, Buzzz, TeeBird, Zone, Harp, etc.

Destroyers, Nukes, Forces, XCals, etc, man, those are for a very few players.

 

[SonicGuy]

Really? You don't think 50% or greater (much greater IMO) of golfers chucking a Destroyer have no business with one anywhere but on a wall?

I watched at guy at doubles once chuck a Destroyer on a 318' hole, complain that it wasn't fading back when he rounded like mad AND threw it on an anny angle and ended up outside of circle 2.

Destroyers are sold because it Paul throws them, and were sold before because Avery threw them, or Anthon, or Brinster, etc.

Some discs are just good for about anyone. Roc, Buzzz, TeeBird, Zone, Harp, etc.

Destroyers, Nukes, Forces, XCals, etc, man, those are for a very few players.

I couldn't disagree more with your entire post.

People don't throw destroyers because Paul does, or Anthon. They throw them because the wide rim promises more distance. And it actually does give more distance, relatively speaking. The Destroyer is an iconic mold that just plain outperforms others in its class, just like the Teebird, just like the Roc.

When the max d drivers first came out they didn't have a name on them and they absolutely sold like hotcakes. It was because of their unique properties, and the promise (if not delivery) of performance gains.

 

[ISUME]

I said it a few dozen pages ago, but that was at least a week ago. So, in internet time, it's prehistoric... Anyway, I'll try again.

Let's all stop putting 'Mc' in front of every word when talking about Paul McBeth. It's (still) McAnnoying...

This is McWatergate!

 

[wims]

On the business side, I am also unsure how much better he will do. The custom discs don't sell merely because they have a name on them. The KC Pro Roc never sold a single disc because of the name. It was because either the mold was already good and the only one available was a pro model (champ teebirds) or the new pro model substantially changed the disc in some way (McPro Aviars).

If McBeth thinks he can slap his name on a Nuke and sell thousands by default I think he will be sorely disappointed. Of course if Discraft comes out with new molds or variations for him it could work out (although I question whether Discraft will have any ROI from the McBeth name stamped on them vs selling the new disc hype).

Disc golf is very different nowadays with the huge explosive growth in popularity. I think the high quality youtube videos plays a big part in that and I believe the new generation is more likely to buy stuff their favorite player is throwing.

 

[bmcgov1209]

Here's my take based on 100% speculation. Paul wants to start a disc company. Innova was unwilling/unable to meet his needs. Discraft was able/willing and "invested" $1M in Paul and his future plans.

I think we'll see a new line of "McBeth Disc Golf Discs™" produced as a sister brand to discraft in the next year or two.

 

[SD86]

Don't forget about the Champion Krait

Everyone should forget about the Krait....

Kraits are underrated. :thmbup: Would like to see them come out in Star (or Pro) plastic...opcorn:

 

[Monocacy]

I can see McBeth's new company having a marketing problem.

If he continues to play at his current level, everyone concludes that it is the archer not the arrow.

If his level of play drops off, everyone concludes that the discs are the problem.

Hmmm.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

You know, I get the skepticism when the rumor first broke. I didn't get the all in, bet everything I own claims it wouldn't happen. Of course it could happen. I had no idea if it would, but to just flat out say no way was silly IMO.

However, the crazy denial that is going on by a few now, really confuses me. What more do you want? Innova announced it, Ian has confirmed it, Ultiworld has reported it, and Hanna McBeth has addressed it on her IG account.

Yes, it would be nice for Paul and Discraft to put something out, but again, through 12/31/2018 he is under contract to Innova.

hahaha YES. You are CRUSHING Discfifty's life right now. He and others are STILL in denial and its quite amusing.

 

[TheOtherBill]

The McBeth's are planning a his & hers line up of discs. You buy them in two-packs for Valentines, anniversaries, etc. Packs will include color-coordinated or matching stamped discs suitable for different powered arm speeds.
They will reach an entirely new audience - couples looking for low-impact activities to do together. Will include ads in Women's Health and Better Homes and Frisbees magazines.

Crazy? Yes, but after today is it really outside the realm of possibility?

 

[BuiltTooLong]

One thing to consider, Paul has always been steadfast in saying that he would NEVER bring an agent to the negotiating table with Innova, but he's never said anything about using an agent to negotiate with other manufacturers. This may have been the determining factor in finding the best deal.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

I couldn't disagree more with your entire post.

People don't throw destroyers because Paul does, or Anthon. They throw them because the wide rim promises more distance. And it actually does give more distance, relatively speaking. The Destroyer is an iconic mold that just plain outperforms others in its class, just like the Teebird, just like the Roc.

When the max d drivers first came out they didn't have a name on them and they absolutely sold like hotcakes. It was because of their unique properties, and the promise (if not delivery) of performance gains.

Most people who throw destroyers don't get more distance or more performance out of them. Many many many people of ALL ages and experience levels are throwing a lot of discs ill suited for them and most of those discs that are thrown is because of what someone else can do with them. Yes wide rimmed drivers promise more distance but for most players? They can probably get equal or greater distance out of something like a DX Eagle.

I just don't know why it is so mysterious to so many that putting a big name on a disc sells it. Take a disc that is popular, take a great player and put their name on it and bam it sells out. Sexton firebirds selling out on infinite discs within hours of being released... really? Those same discs without being the Sexy Bird were going to be that much of a commodity?

 

[McFer]

Paul should just start his own disc line. It really wouldn't be that hard for him to pull off. Forget the pittance of money from being sponsored. A McBeast line would have instant cache, and would also have instant credibility because he'd be throwing the product.

 

[ThrowBot]

I'm still amazed at this notion that Paul's name on Discraft discs is going to generate oodles of sales. Can I get some guesses?

I understand that his name is going to sell more discs, but I just don't see how it works. Enlighten me.

Let's assume that the relative numbers $8 mm vs $52 mm relate to actual disc sales. That means Innova is moving six discs for every one of Discraft's, generally speaking. Are we expecting that Discraft numbers are going up? Are those new sales, or are they cannibalized sales, are they stealing from Innova or some other manufacturer? Is the expectation that Discraft is gonna catch Innova in sales? Or will it be something more modest? Are folks gonna just buy new discs, and a lot of them, based on this move? If you make DiscPaul discs are you gonna canniblalize other Discraft sales, or are you gonna get all new customers? What conversion rate does Discraft expect? How many from Tri, how many from Innova?

Innova folks, how many of you are following Paul? How many of you are converting your bag? How many of you are going to go out of your way to try one of these discs? How many would take one if given one and if it flew good, would move an Innova product that flew the same, out of your bag?

Discraft fans, are you expecting something dynamically new? Something no one has ever seen before, longer, better?

BTW - I often think Sonic is overboard, but I think he's thinkin' a lot clearer than some are.

Interesting questions.

Overall, I don't think this generates any NEW sales for disc golf in general. All of the new sales for Discraft will be cannibalized from other companies.

I think the biggest boost to Discraft's sales is going to be switchovers from Innova. If we take the $54millie vs. $8millie numbers for a spin, then Discraft could increase their sales by 50% if they steal less than 8% of Innova's sales. That doesn't seem too far fetched to me.

How many of Innova's sales are McBeth sig/tour/special edition stamps? 8%?

Of course, Innova will have other irons in the fire. They are going to be pushing out a new Barsby signature disc, and all of their other product lines, and they still have a lot of great brand ambassadors. (Sexton!) But yes, they will take a hit from the McBeth departure, and Discraft will see benefits from his arrival.

If we assume a 1:1 switchover from Innova sales to Discraft, then the losses at Innova will be much smaller--proportionately--than the gains that Discraft experiences.

Swapping bag over? That seems pretty extreme.

I throw mostly Innova but I've also got some Discraft and DGA in the bag. I don't really need any new molds, but if they do a McZone I'll very likely pick one up. I have so many backups for my main throwers, that switching to equivalent Discraft molds would be dumb unless they were very nearly exact copies. Doesn't seem likely, unless McBeth pushes for, say, a Destroyer clone.

However, I could see myself getting more into Discraft swag than I currently am: pins and patches for the bag, frolf polo, etc.

But overall I'm not going to do a complete bandwagon jump. And Discraft has always been OK in my book, just not my primary go-to for most things. That will remain the same.

Just can't say how glad I am that Paul is not going to Trilogy. I would have to disown him in that scenario.

 

[SonicGuy]

Most people who throw destroyers don't get more distance or more performance out of them. Many many many people of ALL ages and experience levels are throwing a lot of discs ill suited for them and most of those discs that are thrown is because of what someone else can do with them. Yes wide rimmed drivers promise more distance but for most players? They can probably get equal or greater distance out of something like a DX Eagle.

I just don't know why it is so mysterious to so many that putting a big name on a disc sells it. Take a disc that is popular, take a great player and put their name on it and bam it sells out. Sexton firebirds selling out on infinite discs within hours of being released... really? Those same discs without being the Sexy Bird were going to be that much of a commodity?

So much wrong with this post.

- Yes even bad players get more distance from wide rim drivers despite not having correct form. Wide rims hide OAT. You say they could get more distance with a dx eagle, but that is simply not true unless they fix their form. Which is exactly why I said they get a "relative" distance gain. They will long term stunt their distance development, but will absolutely get an immediate return.

- Sexton Firebirds are popular because the regular runs of Firebirds have been alternating rounds of hot crap. For a while you couldn't find a single throwable champ chicken on any shelf anywhere, and this is the environment the Sexton Firebirds were released into. So NO, it is not the same disc, the Sexton runs "fixed" the mold just like many many many Innova pro editions.

 

[VictorB]

Feldberg wants your optimism.

Feldberg won his world title in his mid 30s. His game was bound to start declining sooner than later no matter the discs he carried.

It's always been the archer, not the arrow. People who think McBeth will not be good because hes carrying different discs should probably revisit the starter pack challenge where he threw a ~1000 rated round woth 150 class dx discs.

 

[broomerang]

Feldberg won his world title in his mid 30s. His game was bound to start declining sooner than later no matter the discs he carried.

It's always been the archer, not the arrow. People who think McBeth will not be good because hes carrying different discs should probably revisit the starter pack challenge where he threw a ~1000 rated round woth 150 class dx discs.

The only relevant question is how many starter packs and cobras did that video sell?

The answer is more than it should have. And that's how you know it was good marketing.

 

[SonicGuy]

Feldberg won his world title in his mid 30s. His game was bound to start declining sooner than later no matter the discs he carried.

It's always been the archer, not the arrow. People who think McBeth will not be good because hes carrying different discs should probably revisit the starter pack challenge where he threw a ~1000 rated round woth 150 class dx discs.

Give any Archer a brand new bow after two decades using a different bow and you will see a ton of difference. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

 

[VictorB]

Give any Archer a brand new bow after two decades using a different bow and you will see a ton of difference. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

Statements like this will get anyone an immediate loss of credibility with me.

Half the discs Paul throws haven't been out for 1 decade, let alone 2.

 

[ThunderEagle]

Give any Archer a brand new bow after two decades using a different bow and you will see a ton of difference. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

You are literally completely wrong on this. Levi Morgan, probably the greatest 3D Archer ever, after winning 6 straight ASA Championships, switch from Matthews to Elite Archery, and then continued to win Championships and Shooter of the Year titles, and then this year switched back to Matthews and, wow, won again.

 

[DanJon]

I think that Discraft needs a face for the disc golf brand and Paul is the biggest name in the game.

He will be part of their new branding/marketing moving forward.

Sure a line of discs may follow, but a lot of you seem to misunderstand a long term marketing approach.

He is a 4x World Champ and 2x US Champ and that's never going away.

They now get to use that in promotion as long as he's under contract.

It's especially valuable if Doss is moving away from competition.

The hardcores know what Discraft is and will hopefully appreciate a fresh approach.

Noobs can look at a disc on the shelf and say, wow a 4x Disc Golf World Champion uses these same discs!