Orchestra
Newbie
The Rock at Stonewall in Germanton, NC is a par 70 ball golf course that also has permanent disc golf baskets set up for a par 70 disc golf course. It has held a couple of PDGA events.
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Jeez I hope not. I love the diversity of course types and pars and challenge that this sport offers, it's why I don't play 'ball golf' anymore, monotony. I wish there were more longer par 54 courses with crazy tough holes. Todays top pros eat up the par 4s and 5s because most take the challenge off of the tee shot. I think disc golf should make every effort to NOT standardize or follow ball golf......except the money of course.
Shorewinds blue course at lakeside state park in western NY is a par 71 and plays every bit as challenging as par would indicate. I think these type of courses are great for tournament golf, but for casual, everyday play a fun yet demanding par 3 course is just fine.
I think they did some serious earth moving for this course in Europe (Tampere Disc Golf Center):A topic, maybe a bit related?, I considered asking here has to do with earth moving and terra forming for a disc golf course as is done in ball golf.
From a money standpoint I don't see it being practical in disc golf but wonder about the possibilities.
In disc golf we are still very limited to the land as we find it. Some tree clearing or maybe a bit of building up a hill or flatting some ground, but think about ball golf where some of these championship courses are created by completely changing the land itself. Many use natural elements, but then there can still be a lot of work moving creeks, adjusting slopes, bringing in or moving large mature trees. I would love to see what the big name famous course designers could do for disc golf with Par 72 and unlimited construction budget could create.
I think in the mean time pushing much beyond what we currently see would be hard.
Nice summarization of my thoughts takman. I don't think we should be striving to make changes to be more like golf.
We just checked maps yesterday and the current Bear layout only has six holes for sure the same as my original design and three more that might be close without seeing them in person yet. So I'm not sure what the par would be on the current layout or perhaps the 71 listed is accurate. It's likely close from what I've heard from players over the years.I'm not sure if it applies to this but the bear at Highbridge Hills is listed at 71. Chuck would know more about this but all I know is that course was crazy hard. I only played the bear proper once. It was woodland bear before that. That course is nothing like a golf course though.
I believe there was considerable earth moved in construction of Parc des Familles, a John Houck course in a Louisiana cypress swamp.
A topic, maybe a bit related?, I considered asking here has to do with earth moving and terra forming for a disc golf course as is done in ball golf.
From a money standpoint I don't see it being practical in disc golf but wonder about the possibilities.
In disc golf we are still very limited to the land as we find it. Some tree clearing or maybe a bit of building up a hill or flatting some ground, but think about ball golf where some of these championship courses are created by completely changing the land itself. Many use natural elements, but then there can still be a lot of work moving creeks, adjusting slopes, bringing in or moving large mature trees. I would love to see what the big name famous course designers could do for disc golf with Par 72 and unlimited construction budget could create.
I think in the mean time pushing much beyond what we currently see would be hard.
"Considerable" describes it pretty well. Every inch of every fairway got 6-8" of sand. But none of it was mounding or anything like that -- not this time.
Undulations on the fairway probably have more of an impact in ball golf, since it's more of a ground-based game. But I do think we'll start seeing more earth-moving in the future.
As for par 72, I'm not sure we want courses with only four par threes. Or sport is deeply rooted in par threes, and we have the ability to make so many more interesting par threes. And we can still make good par threes where a driver is a good choice off the tee, which doesn't happen in ball golf.
I think the fewest I've ever done on one course was seven par threes, and I didn't have any desire to go lower than that, even when I could have. FWIW.
As for par 72, I'm not sure we want courses with only four par threes. Or sport is deeply rooted in par threes, and we have the ability to make so many more interesting par threes. And we can still make good par threes where a driver is a good choice off the tee, which doesn't happen in ball golf.
The fact that we can make more interesting par threes (I guess you mean more interesting than ball golf) isn't an argument for more pars 3s. We can make more interesting par 4s and 5s as well. The same logic should apply to them.
As far as my thoughts:
1. I would love seeing more variety in courses. I don't like standardization either, and I'm glad we're getting away from "every hole is a par 3" on both the scorecard and in design. In my ideal world that would include some long, open courses that are par 72 and some wooded ones that are 72.
2. From what I've seen, most of the courses that are a true par 72 range from mostly wooded to heavily wooded. I've yet to see a par 72 course that has even 5 open holes. Does anyone know of one?
3. For an open par 72 course, I can only imagine lots of elevation changes and length. The open 4s and 5s that I've played either need to be longer or have more elevation challenges. Length goes against making it easy to install (as most parts don't want to devote that much space).
Two thoughts on personal preference.
1. I'm tired of seeing par 3s. I've seen the same old par 3s on courses, and I'm more interested in seeing new and unique par 4s and 5s. I know they are out there, but if I find the par 3s I haven't played on a course with 17 other par 3s that I have played, it won't be a fun day for me.
2. There are many ways to improve current courses, and moving earth is one of them. I agree that we should be careful about the environment, and there are ways of doing that while moving dirt. But moving dirt/adding rocks/adding bushes all involve more work/increased difficulty/increased par.
As far as my thoughts:
1. I would love seeing more variety in courses. I don't like standardization either, and I'm glad we're getting away from "every hole is a par 3" on both the scorecard and in design. In my ideal world that would include some long, open courses that are par 72 and some wooded ones that are 72.
2. From what I've seen, most of the courses that are a true par 72 range from mostly wooded to heavily wooded. I've yet to see a par 72 course that has even 5 open holes. Does anyone know of one?
3. For an open par 72 course, I can only imagine lots of elevation changes and length. The open 4s and 5s that I've played either need to be longer or have more elevation challenges. Length goes against making it easy to install (as most parts don't want to devote that much space).
As for par 72, I'm not sure we want courses with only four par threes. Or sport is deeply rooted in par threes, and we have the ability to make so many more interesting par threes. And we can still make good par threes where a driver is a good choice off the tee, which doesn't happen in ball golf.
3. For an open par 72 course, I can only imagine lots of elevation changes and length. The open 4s and 5s that I've played either need to be longer or have more elevation challenges. Length goes against making it easy to install (as most parts don't want to devote that much space).
I think the Tampere Disc Golf Center (Finland) did some terra forming. I think some of the elevation and ponds were man-made specifically for the course. That place looks badass:
https://www.discgolfpark.com/course/tampere-disc-golf-center/
I'll definitely need to check it out next time I'm in Finland...
Well thought out, Ryan.
I don't really want to play any wide open par 72 courses. We have a few on golf courses and it just feels like field work. I guess a golf cart and a cooler of beer could be a fun afternoon with a few friends, but that is really not what my game is about anymore.
Lake Marshall- The Lions will have that many mostly open holes when complete.
The difficulty with designing even decent open par 5's in disc golf is the huge disparity in throwing distances of players. If they are long enough for the long throwers to be challenged to birdie they become a boring slog for the rest. If they are short enough to be interesting for the bulk of the field the long throwers eat them up like candy and eagles are commonplace. In my experience I can come up with good par 4 holes at the drop of a hat on virtually any property. Good par 5's on the other hand require better land and exponentially more brain power on my part.