Are we just making things up with nose angle stuff now?

[koiyote]

They both obviously care and I don't know sheep well enough to infer much beyond his demeanor reflecting his passion. Neither of them make any noteworthy amount of money on youtube whatever the dollar amount is. They also aren't selling merch.

Where is the line in the sand being drawn? I assure you these YouTubers are making significantly less than you think. But please tell me at what dollar amount someone becomes a soulless grifter.

Either you can provide evidence that they don't care about the results of their students or you can't. If you can't, you're just slandering them for whatever twisted self righteous crusade you're on.

 

[Sewer bill]

Where is the line in the sand being drawn? I assure you these YouTubers are making significantly less than you think. But please tell me at what dollar amount someone becomes a soulless grifter.

Either you can provide evidence that they don't care about the results of their students or you can't. If you can't, you're just slandering them for whatever twisted self righteous crusade you're on.

I think the distinction is flying over your head. I'm not accusing any of them of making a lot of money, few people in disc golf actually do. I am saying some of them clearly have the content as the point of potential profit vs the content being the content independent of profit.

 

[koiyote]

I think the distinction is flying over your head. I'm not accusing any of them of making a lot of money, few people in disc golf actually do.

You are only now making the distinction.

I am saying some of them clearly have the content as the point of potential profit vs the content being the content independent of profit.

1. Content being a point of potential profit does not mutually exclude the content being made for the sake of the actual content. That's a false dichotomy
2. These guys make so little money from YouTube that it's laughable to think they do it for clicks. We're talking for sure less than $1000 a month for any coaching channel you can think of. That's split between whoever they staff.

Where these guys do make their money is from the lessons they are teaching. That's where you should be asking your questions.

How are these guys that you think are not actually helping students out maintaining a clientele? They've been doing it long enough that you would expect word to have gotten out that they are selling snake oil by now if their students weren't helped.

"They're just really good salespeople" or "the students just don't know any better" might come to mind as responses from a skeptic, sure. But what if they really are helping people and you're just writing it off?

That's the last bit from me unless there seems like genuine care for the truth of the matter.

 

[Sheep]

Where is the line in the sand being drawn? I assure you these YouTubers are making significantly less than you think. But please tell me at what dollar amount someone becomes a soulless grifter.

Either you can provide evidence that they don't care about the results of their students or you can't. If you can't, you're just slandering them for whatever twisted self righteous crusade you're on.

I would suggest you step back on topics you don't have much information on, especially if you're going to try and talk about youtube revenue. It's already obvious you're not very informed on some topics and are more interested in trying to cause problems than actually add to the discussion. Don't make wild notions up about things you have absolutely no clue on.

OT is making a LOT of money on youtube. That's before the patron money comes in. Their income is supporting multiple people's lives where they don't have to have day jobs.

While I don't make any money on my channel, nor is that my channels goal. My job is working on youtube and it pays my bills. I'm quite aware of how the payout structure works, why people make content that they do and how they make it.

I'm not sure what your goal is in here, but your attitude makes even me cringe. Because you're never trying to even have a discussion. You're just trying to wave your micro penis everywhere and tell everyone how big it is.
We don't care.

 

[Brychanus]

Wanted to share on YT channels for any lurkers:

I'm not sure what people are assuming YouTubers make in direct revenues from their channels. I haven't seen any numbers estimated other than what Koiyote suggested "less than $1000 per month".

I have talked directly to certain a person with a large channel (tens of thousands of subscribers) you have all heard of and they have showed me their internal YouTube dashboards. It earns less than $1,000 per month. Closer to $500-$600 on a given month. Think about your own individual rent or mortgage relative to that figure.

You can go to socialblade and get estimates for any YouTube channel you choose.

Here's Overthrow's:

https://socialblade.com/youtube/c/overthrowdiscgolf

Here's Slingshot's:

https://socialblade.com/youtube/channel/UCys7gcYGyBtPYxYxrlGzO1Q

Here's Sidewinder's:

https://socialblade.com/youtube/c/seabas22

Here's mine:

https://socialblade.com/youtube/c/aceitdiscgolf

If the goal is to sustain themselves or a business in DG coaching, most of the people with YT channels are not making it directly or only from YT/YT ad revenue.

 

[Sheep]

Wanted to share on YT channels for any lurkers:

I'm not sure what people are assuming YouTubers make in direct revenues from their channels. I haven't seen any numbers estimated other than what Koiyote suggested "less than $1000 per month".

I have talked directly to certain a person with a large channel (tens of thousands of subscribers) you have all heard of and they have showed me their internal YouTube dashboards. It earns less than $1,000 per month. Closer to $500-$600 on a given month. Think about your own individual rent or mortgage relative to that figure.

You can go to socialblade and get estimates for any YouTube channel you choose.

Here's Overthrow's:

https://socialblade.com/youtube/c/overthrowdiscgolf

Here's Slingshot's:

https://socialblade.com/youtube/channel/UCys7gcYGyBtPYxYxrlGzO1Q

Here's Sidewinder's:

https://socialblade.com/youtube/c/seabas22

Here's mine:

https://socialblade.com/youtube/c/aceitdiscgolf

If the goal is to sustain themselves or a business in DG coaching, most of the people with YT channels are not making it directly or only from YT/YT ad revenue.

The biggest problem with this conversation is ignoring the whole picture.
Social blade is also giving info out that has such a swing to it that makes no sense.

CPM is important to know, and social blade has no clue what their CPM is. Not everyone on youtube is paid the same. Some channels might have a 10 dollar cpm, while channels like whistling diesel has a 24+CPM.

If you got 50k subs and youre pulling 500-1000 a month on youtube, you're CRUSHING it. I know youtubers with 4 times the views that OT gets and they dont get but maybe 400 a month. Cause their CPM is low due to the type of content and youtubes silly ad BS.

There are things that are really important on youtube. Constantly posting, and posting on a schedule. You'll see a lot of youtubers post 2 to 3 times a week, but 1 of the 3 video's is only good. It's because they are trying to get into the algorthm from click throughs.

The pass through rate is what keeps you on the feed. If you stop posting, your video's wont get suggested.
If people dont click, your vidoe's wont get suggested. Thats why everything is clickbaity. It's all "try this secret sauce to improve your game." It's to get attention and bring you into the algorithm.

You look at titles from someone like sidewinder. He just names it whatever. Cause.. he doesn't care about it, he just wants to present good information and if people watch it cool, if not, whatever.

I am giggling though, social blade used to be SOOO much more accurate before the ad-pocolipse. LIke we dont know, you could be making 500 a month, or 2,000. Thats a huge swing. But that's cause it doesnt know your CPM.

CPM, click through, and retention are king now on youtube. You want people to constantly click on your video in the suggested video's. And when that happens, you get moved up the list more and more. And if they stay for longer, even better. So you gotta post catchy clickbait stuff. you need random people to click. It's a game, its all a game. The overall point that was made by me or whoever.. at this point I don't care. I'm not even sure why I bother to come in here half the time anyways. But the point is, the content being made is to play the game. Not to just present the idea. And it's their job, regardless of any of that. But it's being presented as click bait, even if its good information, medocre, whatever.


Then getting subs is all about shorts now, cause people have the attention span of a flea, but 4mill views on a short might be like 3 dollars. And then shorts subscribers dont translate into longform subscribers either.

I'm just going to move to alaska and stop talking to people.
It's tiresome at every corner trying to speak with others.

 

[koiyote]

"The problem in the world is the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence."

I would suggest you step back on topics you don't have much information on, especially if you're going to try and talk about youtube revenue. It's already obvious you're not very informed on some topics and are more interested in trying to cause problems than actually add to the discussion. Don't make wild notions up about things you have absolutely no clue on.

This seems to be pot calling the kettle black. Still waiting for responses on ALL of my previous counter arguments since your last response of "don't put words in my mouth."

Secondly, you are so outgunned in this area of knowledge it's unbelievable the amount of confidence you have.

OT is making a LOT of money on youtube. That's before the patron money comes in. Their income is supporting multiple people's lives where they don't have to have day jobs.

What is "a LOT?" Give me a range. Give me something we can test and prove either your accuracy or complete ignorance in this matter. (I'd recommend starting the range pretty low. This would allow you to hedge your bets with a statement like "well, that's a lot of money for me."

While I don't make any money on my channel, nor is that my channels goal. My job is working on youtube and it pays my bills. I'm quite aware of how the payout structure works, why people make content that they do and how they make it.

We'll see how aware of the structure you are when you give us a range.

I'm not sure what your goal is in here, but your attitude makes even me cringe. Because you're never trying to even have a discussion. You're just trying to wave your micro penis everywhere and tell everyone how big it is.
We don't care.

Ah. Penis jokes. Good one.

The reason it makes you cringe is because you're being challenged. You're being told your ideas are stupid, that they don't hold up to scrutiny, and you don't like it.

Look carefully. The only ones I've responded to in this manner are you and Sewer Bill. Why? Because you both are bullies who assume motives of people that aren't here and slander them without cause.

That's cancer to a community.

My responses have been logical; thought out. Yours have been either non existent or nonsensical.

Answer me with facts or shut your mouth.

 

[Sheep]

"The problem in the world is the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence."

This seems to be pot calling the kettle black. Still waiting for responses on ALL of my previous counter arguments since your last response of "don't put words in my mouth."

Secondly, you are so outgunned in this area of knowledge it's unbelievable the amount of confidence you have.


What is "a LOT?" Give me a range. Give me something we can test and prove either your accuracy or complete ignorance in this matter. (I'd recommend starting the range pretty low. This would allow you to hedge your bets with a statement like "well, that's a lot of money for me."

We'll see how aware of the structure you are when you give us a range.

Ah. Penis jokes. Good one.

The reason it makes you cringe is because you're being challenged. You're being told your ideas are stupid, that they don't hold up to scrutiny, and you don't like it.

Look carefully. The only ones I've responded to in this manner are you and Sewer Bill. Why? Because you both are bullies who assume motives of people that aren't here and slander them without cause.

That's cancer to a community.

My responses have been logical; thought out. Yours have been either non existent or nonsensical.

Answer me with facts or shut your mouth.

I'm not going to respond to you constantly making personal attacks and being just rude and idiotic.

 

[seedlings]

Do you happen to have a video of this? I want to see if this sort of action can help me, since my swing has a bit of a swoop. Part of my problem is the disc starts to come up at the peak of my backswing.

In my mind I'm thinking Isaac Robinson form where in the last bit of his swing, his hand goes up exponentially, exaggerated. An upward swoop.

 

[mcreda]

I'm not going to respond to you constantly making personal attacks and being just rude and idiotic.

The Ignore function works pretty well on DGCR for users like koiyote.

 

[SocraDeez]

riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

A way a lone a last a loved a long the

 

[koiyote]

I'm not going to respond to you constantly making personal attacks and being just rude and idiotic.

Show me one personal attack. I've tried very hard to avoid that.

And I'm sure my attitude doesn't help at times because of my willingness to say how I feel in a very blunt fashion. It's not meant as awful attacks on others as a person, but I'm attacking their process or idea. It's hard to differentiate for a younger crowd the difference, because everything is a personal attack to them while the older crowd grew up differently. And even me being 40 years old, I grew up around guys who were 50+ my whole life and didn't interact with the younger crowd till I was in my mid 20's. So my brashness is ... well, forged in old fire of people who are honest and upfront about things, but it's never a personal attack.

The fact of the matter is that you don't like your idea to be scrutinized. You don't like to be interacted with in the very same manner you interact with others.

It's much easier to personally attack these YouTubers when they're not in front of you. Doesn't seem so fun anymore does it?

I hope our interactions make you look in the mirror and see that you're doing the very thing you accuse me of.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

trying to cause problems than actually add to the discussion

Here goes sheep again, accusing anyone who challenges him as trying to cause problems.

You're just trying to wave your micro penis everywhere and tell everyone how big it is.

I'm not going to respond to you constantly making personal attacks and being just rude and idiotic.

You are really making yourself look like a fool lately when you start to get challenged based on your inability to handle it in a way that seems to match the self-image you normally portray yourself as. Otherwise, if you are able to just write a long post without any challenge it often has good content and form knowledge.

From what I've seen so far by @koiyote, he is much more clear and coherent when it comes to handling claims and facts. He simply takes things claim by claim and presents counter facts and arguments organized nicely to be easier to reply back, there's no need to be upset about that.

This makes me wonder how you handle a challenge to your advice in person during a coaching lesson and if you're able to keep it together or start getting mad and accusing them of causing problems instead of wanting to learn, etc.

 

[RowingBoats]

Man, I took like a month off, but have a tournament this weekend and wanted to see what's up here...sheesh lol



To me, this meme is making fun of the guy, to some of y'all...lol I don't know!

I miss when this place was mostly a bunch of people saying weird ass shit about disc golf. There are still a few people doing it, so I still like this place, but the vibe is definitely changed.

I'm not going to take sides here, but I will drop another meme that I think would accurately reflect what would happen if all of the people in here arguing had to do it in person:



Online-only aggressive pedantry is just so boring lol.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Man, I took like a month off, but have a tournament this weekend and wanted to see what's up here...sheesh lol

View attachment 335490

To me, this meme is making fun of the guy, to some of y'all...lol I don't know!

I miss when this place was mostly a bunch of people saying weird ass shit about disc golf. There are still a few people doing it, so I still like this place, but the vibe is definitely changed.

I'm not going to take sides here, but I will drop another meme that I think would accurately reflect what would happen if all of the people in here arguing had to do it in person:

View attachment 335491

Online-only aggressive pedantry is just so boring lol.

The memes are funny but I think the bickering here is above the first one and what you normally see elsewhere since people here are more interested in ideas for the sake of ideas than the average crowd arguing online.

For the first one it's more like: "You claim to want to find out the truth, and I want to find out the truth, so let's try to handle the claims and present the facts and arguments so we can further our understanding." instead of "haha, you wrong, I'm right, I win." We're doing more of the former here than the latter compared to the typical YT or FB debates (outside of select communities on there), but of course, some people are still diverging from that more at times than others but even then, it doesn't devolve as much.

 

[koiyote]

Man, I took like a month off, but have a tournament this weekend and wanted to see what's up here...sheesh lol

View attachment 335490

To me, this meme is making fun of the guy, to some of y'all...lol I don't know!

I miss when this place was mostly a bunch of people saying weird ass shit about disc golf. There are still a few people doing it, so I still like this place, but the vibe is definitely changed.

I'm not going to take sides here, but I will drop another meme that I think would accurately reflect what would happen if all of the people in here arguing had to do it in person:

View attachment 335491

Online-only aggressive pedantry is just so boring lol.

I agree. I've never had anyone that talks big behind their keyboard take me up on a phone call.

I extend the offer to Sheep and am willing to prove my desire for civil and constructive discussion about disc golf form with those who are of similar intent.

My aggressive approach is only aimed at those who say they care about truth and make slanderous remarks in the same breath.

That's a non starter for learning.

I hope that my responses can be seen as such. If on the other hand they are unfair or I am misconstruing things myself, please correct me.

 

[Kennets]

[COLOR=var(--text)]On OT: I like overthrow, the channel has been a huge help in my journey. But. [/COLOR]

You guys must be outta ya mind, if you don't think branding and SoMe is a huge part of it. They might not earn thousands of dollars in revenue of clicks, adds and subscribers, but I would imagine (not that I know and I like to pull numbers out of my ass, like all others in here) that the sponsors and the coaching they do is really affected by their YouTube videos and publicity, hence them making more money as a straight byproduct of their videos.

I like the OT video sheep linked and I've been struggling a lot with nose up and oat lately, so I'm trying to get dialed back in. I've not necessarily fixed my issues with the nose angle, but who knows, it might help others.

I'll take ANY cue that might gonna help me throw better.. when I first saw seabass22 and aceitdiscgolf throwing a hammer, I laughed my ass off. That were probably the dumbest stuff I had ever seen.. that's untill I tried it and I somehow broke my PB without breaking a sweat.

Off topic: you guys really need to lay back on the personal vendettas. I actually wrote a lot more here, but I think it's better just to shut up and actually stay on topic.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

[COLOR=var(--text)]On OT: I like overthrow, the channel has been a huge help in my journey. But. [/COLOR]

You guys must be outta ya mind, if you don't think branding and SoMe is a huge part of it. They might not earn thousands of dollars in revenue of clicks, adds and subscribers, but I would imagine (not that I know and I like to pull numbers out of my ass, like all others in here) that the sponsors and the coaching they do is really affected by their YouTube videos and publicity, hence them making more money as a straight byproduct of their videos.

I like the OT video sheep linked and I've been struggling a lot with nose up and oat lately, so I'm trying to get dialed back in. I've not necessarily fixed my issues with the nose angle, but who knows, it might help others.

I'll take ANY cue that might gonna help me throw better.. when I first saw seabass22 and aceitdiscgolf throwing a hammer, I laughed my ass off. That were probably the dumbest stuff I had ever seen.. that's untill I tried it and I somehow broke my PB without breaking a sweat.

Off topic: you guys really need to lay back on the personal vendettas. I actually wrote a lot more here, but I think it's better just to shut up and actually stay on topic.

I don't have a personal vendetta. But there is a problem to be pointed out and addressed if @Sheep is developing a pattern of taking it personal when his ideas are challenged and then resorting to personal attacks and accusations.

He accused me of being a slingshot shill and trying to cause problems and asking 'bad questions' despite barley watching the sling shot guy, just because I asked for clarification and scrutinized some of his points. It's so clear that my questions are almost all heavily geared towards trying to understand very specific mechanical aspects of the form or theorizing about mechanics.

Idc that much and just moved on to continue asking questions to get more helpful answers from other people, but when I see him doing the same type of shit to another person, I feel more compelled to point it out since so people see it's not an isolated incident. I haven't been here for very long though, so idk if there are more instances.

 

[Kennets]

I don't have a personal vendetta. But there is a problem to be pointed out and addressed if @Sheep is developing a pattern of taking it personal when his ideas are challenged and then resorting to personal attacks and accusations.

He accused me of being a slingshot shill and trying to cause problems and asking 'bad questions' despite barley watching the sling shot guy, just because I asked for clarification and scrutinized some of his points. It's so clear that my questions are almost all heavily geared towards trying to understand very specific mechanical aspects of the form or theorizing about mechanics.

Idc that much and just moved on to continue asking questions to get more helpful answers from other people, but when I see him doing the same type of shit to another person, I feel more compelled to point it out since so people see it's not an isolated incident. I haven't been here for very long though, so idk if there are more instances.

Just to be clear, I'm not picking sides here.

I think it's a shame that topics derails from their original purpose and things get lost in all the smack talk.

You for example, have a "funny" way of asking/acting critical of info presented and it took me a while to get used to your very analytical way of approaching stuff. Even though I felt like typing "STOP AND LISTEN" I wouldn't want to derail the topic, because a lot what's written is really valuable to this forum.. and me.

We need to let some stuff slip and move on. I know Koiyote probably means well, but his way of typing really rubs me the wrong way. To me it doesn't seem like a way of challenging thought and ideas, but more of a way to take every single word and trying to belittle people and admit they're dead wrong.. not inviting to a proper civilized discussion, but more being an instigator for a shitstorm. It might be justified, but it's not adding to the topic, do it in PM's if you guys feel like going off.. like I've done with other people

But that's how I interpret it and I won't start a 3 page war about it, I'll continue to read his stuff and just scroll quickly past stuff I don't like, like I do with a lot of people.

 

[Kennets]

Well, that came out wrong.. stupid English not being my first language. I hope you guys doesn't take it the wrong way.. I'm just in here to learn and I love this page!