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Backhand: Reach Back vs "Moving Around the Disc" (McBeth Style)

Wow, this thread is blowing my mind. I had been trying the super reachback after watching Will's instructional video, but haven't seen a ton of D. I will be trying to focus more on moving around the disc now and seeing how that works. Thanks guys!
 
So I've been studying slow motion film of different pros (mostly Feldberg b/c I like how smooth he is) & was testing out moving around the disc during my usual field work earlier today & at first I didn't see much distance or accuracy increase. Then I spent about about a two hours or so "rebuilding" my throw. I started with a standstill & threw all my discs in my bag 5 times, then did a one step & repeated the process of throwing all my discs until I worked up to a full x step. Even though by that point I was tired (I played two rounds prior to all this) & I was hungry I still managed to gain about 25-50 ft of distance depending on the throw. B/c I was aiming with my body more I felt more accurate & completely in control of my discs. I wanna thank Sidewinder b/c he gave me all the links to checkout. Also his video & comments helped greatly. Sidewinder...you rule. :)
 
I have also been reaching back further after watching Will's instructional video. I had always based my reach back on an overhead perspective video of Feldberg driving where, from above, he looks like superman flying directly away from the target at point of furthest reach back. So Feldberg's shoulders never seem to rotate past perpendicular to the line of play at the furthest point of reach back. But, based on Will's video, I am no longer reaching back with both arms, but am instead hitching my left arm up to my side the way he does and rotating my shoulders past perpendicular to the line of play. I do seem to be getting a bit more distance, but I am working through some control issues. Scores, however, have never been better, but I feel like this driving technique is putting more stress on my body. I've never had pain in my right hip like others complain of, but now I do, and my arm feels like it is going to fall off. I have trouble picking up a gallon of milk for a few days. That sort of thing.

From Paul McBeth's videos, I don't see him reaching the same position as Will at furthest "backswing." In other words, his shoulders seem perpendicular to the line of play, like Feldberg's. But it's a little hard to tell. What do you think?
 
I've had three "ah ha" moments over the years improving my driving.

1) Get my off arm out of the way (used to use both arms during start of reachback) to allow full rotation
2) Power grip (instead of a two finger grip) to increase control and accuracy
3) Walk around disc (instead of swinging arm back) allowed for deeper reachback and more control

Everytime I try to push for more reachback than the walk-around technique I end up with all kinds of accuracy issues. Nose up, nose down, pulls left and right, etc. What minimal D increase I see is more than offset by bad lines.

I've never felt any pain or discomfort from backhanding. I will get some minor elbow aches from heavy practice of forehands or some rotator cuff tightness from too many overhands. Since you should be using your arm as a "whip" on a backhand, it shouldn't produce arm pain. I think you might be strong-arming if have trouble picking up a gallon of milk afterwards.
 
great thread and mcbeth really is the mcbeast. i so wish i could throw like that.
 
The full reachback is the suck for me. My discs usually go wild and thats no good. Me and a buddy have even tamed our tee off down a bit by trying to improve our form with no run up and I can still get almost the same distance but with soooooo much more accuracy.
 
It seems any thrower who looks effortless is using this technique and not the huge reachback. This seems to fall under the advice that true distance comes from the peck to release, not from the longer reachback.

Really, people should teach the "moving around the disc" because even when they have a pronounced reachback, the actual end of the throw is them loading the disc, and moving around it to the hit.

This topic is fantastic! I really feel it perfectly describes my most recent a-ha moment which disolved the second I tried to reintroduce a longer reachback.
 
I was working with Feldbeard on my technique earlier this year. He had me try his technique of keeping my arm straight, and swinging it back like a pendulum. The idea being that you're moving the disc in a fluid, non-stop motion. With a straight reach-back your arm has to work against itself in that you are pushing the disc backwards, then reversing the motion to pull through which robs you of a bit of power, and speed. I've actually found that I can gain a fair amount of additional distance by using this pendulum style of reach back.
 
I think it's unnecessary to have a huge reach back. When I have tried really reaching back it completely messes up my stance and my throw.

I look to Bruce Lee and the One Inch Punch for an analogy. You can generate lots of force with simple, correct body mechanics without having to load these huge punches (or throws, in this case). It all originates in the footwork and moves up through the hips, core, shoulders, and out of your extremities. It's in the last moment when you focus your energy.

That's just my two cents, though.
 
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I look to Bruce Lee and the One Inch Punch for an analogy.


i'm already throwing a one inch throw...

all jokes aside though, yeah. i'm in the same boat. reaching back essentially guarantees that i will pull with my arm and not rotate my body enough.
 
I was working with Feldbeard on my technique earlier this year. He had me try his technique of keeping my arm straight, and swinging it back like a pendulum. The idea being that you're moving the disc in a fluid, non-stop motion. With a straight reach-back your arm has to work against itself in that you are pushing the disc backwards, then reversing the motion to pull through which robs you of a bit of power, and speed. I've actually found that I can gain a fair amount of additional distance by using this pendulum style of reach back.

I really want to try this. The reason I like it is because the biggest thing for me to get accuracy on my drive is getting in a good rhythm. The whole pendulum swinging thing reminds me of a metronome. When the beat comes down, your ready for the Swing. Kind of enforces a rhythm.
 
So I tried working with this earlier today during my quick round, and I was inconsistent. I felt like I was curling my body up too much and not having my arm loose enough before throwing. Does any of that make sense? I felt like I was wrapping myself in a ball, almost, rather than feeling fluid. Maybe it will take more time, or maybe my arm needs to be extended more, I'm not sure. But it felt a bit unnatural. Which means I was probably doing it wrong...
 
I think of it as a reciprocating dingle arm with a pendulum motion.

 
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This is probably the most helpful thread (threads if you count the links) I've read about the reachback/backswing. Thanks a lot, guys! One thing that I really struggle with is the shifting of weight while maintaining center of gravity. I usually end up throwing my body forward (which I read is a no no), thus throwing off my accuracy. The idea of "moving around the disc" is really clicking in my head, hope I can make it happen in real time!
 
I enjoy doing a long backswing, but accuracy suffers. I usually do a 65% of maximum reachback, that way I can control the shot and put a little bit of power on it as well. :D
 
I can't speak for anyone else, but as a 50 year old, 300' turd thrower recently, i started doing a deep reach back and i've totally gained 50' in the past month. Guys i'm playing with are saying "WTF?" with my new distance, and it's making me re-think my approach shots totally.
 
I think I'm going to disc down to all mids and standstill throwing and change my driving mechanics to this style. Then work in a run up and work on the timing of this style. It seems like this style has a lot to do with precise timing.

I just have one question: When you are building your run up what is the best way to practice correct timing and motion to make sure everything is working together?
 
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Did some work with this yesterday and after tweaking the motion holy cow was I able to generate a ton of snap and power even from a standstill. When I threw my putters on drives they were going a good 20 ft further than normal.

Only problem I noticed was some slight inaccuracy and early releases, but I think that might just be from the newness of the motion.

Any tips on improving accuracy?
 

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