Backhand: Reach Back vs "Moving Around the Disc" (McBeth Style)

[sidewinder22]

I think it has more to due with the upper arm to shoulder angle being wider than 90 degrees - not hugging yourself.

Note how the player below has his wrist flipped and hugging himself.

 

[Thediscgolferguy]

If you are taking a little short last stride, then I guess it's not possible to really leave the disc in place if you are still coiling maximally. Then to get to a full back swing the disc has to get a little bit further back in space because you're not moving past it enough with your body, yes? But is this a problem? Is there an advantage to leaving the disc fully in space compared to moving it slightly back?

 

[disc-golf-neil]

@sidewinder22 why do you think the pendulum reach back style is not more popular among pros today?

I've only watched lead cards from a decent amount of 2023 but I barely recall seeing it.

 

[sidewinder22]

People trying to copy Drew and Simon and believe a myth that the pendulum is inferior.

 

[Sheep]

People trying to copy Drew and Simon and believe a myth that the pendulum is inferior.

@sidewinder22 why do you think the pendulum reach back style is not more popular among pros today?

I've only watched lead cards from a decent amount of 2023 but I barely recall seeing it.

I just went through this with a friend who had a natural pendulum backswing.
He watched one of the old simon/eagle clinics and they were pushing the other method.

I told him that it's not necessarily true.
And there are people on the internet who say otherwise as well as myself.

How you get back into the backswing position isn't as important. it's about staying in rhythm and time to get back there without some herky jerky motions that are over taxing on your muscle system.

If its a sweep back pendulum that loads you into position, do it.
If its walking the disc out, do it.

All that matters is whatever you do puts low stress on your body and lets you relax into the loaded and coiled position.

 

[TheOtherBill]

'How you get back into the backswing position isn't as important. it's about staying in rhythm and time"

Does anyone still teach/use DaveD's bent elbow technique? That was on their instructional printouts from the early 2000s.

 

[Sheep]

'How you get back into the backswing position isn't as important. it's about staying in rhythm and time"

Does anyone still teach/use DaveD's bent elbow technique? That was on their instructional printouts from the early 2000s.

Not familiar with that one.

But as for the quote you pulled on me.
I stand by it.

It's about getting your body into position. as long as you set your body up correctly, who cares as much how you got to the correct position.

 

[TheOtherBill]

Agree it's not the how you get to the hit, but what happens when you get there. In nearly 20 years I think I've seen 99% of the ways you can effectively eject a disc from your hand.
The bent elbow seemed at the time to be a result of one person's style becoming what was suggested based on who was doing, not because it would work for most people. I spent one whole summer trying and after 3 months was still throwing it into the ground 40 feet in front of the tee.

Here's Dave's input from the old PDGA boards - Elbow Extension [Archive] - PDGA Discussion Board

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Why do most pros who briefcase carry undo the briefcase carry during the reach back? If you ate going to pronate on the way into the power pocket, why not already be pronated in the reach back. The only thing that comes to mind is it's priming the supination that they want to return to after the power pocket.

 

[419HondaGuy]

Why do most pros who briefcase carry undo the briefcase carry during the reach back? If you ate going to pronate on the way into the power pocket, why not already be pronated in the reach back. The only thing that comes to mind is it's priming the supination that they want to return to after the power pocket.

which pros are you referencing? Whether you call it briefcase or steering wheel grip, that is just going to be an individual preference thing for each player. This is something that is usually developed naturally by those that implement this in their form, myself included.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

which pros are you referencing? Whether you call it briefcase or steering wheel grip, that is just going to be an individual preference thing for each player. This is something that is usually developed naturally by those that implement this in their form, myself included.

Proctor for example but I'm pretty sure I recall most of the other popular pros known for doing a bit of a briefcase do it too.

With Proctor it's just a lot more obvious because he starts out with it very pronated but then on the reach back, he is no longer holding it with pronation it seems.

 

[itlnstln]

'How you get back into the backswing position isn't as important. it's about staying in rhythm and time"

Does anyone still teach/use DaveD's bent elbow technique? That was on their instructional printouts from the early 2000s.

I use the bent elbow. I find it easier to get my elbow forward and "throw the hammer;" I tend to round if I reach straight back. Calvin, Ricky, Seppo and Emerson are all bent elbow throwers. Even Simon throws bent elbow on many throws, particularly on less than max distance throws

 

[Sheep]

Why do most pros who briefcase carry undo the briefcase carry during the reach back? If you ate going to pronate on the way into the power pocket, why not already be pronated in the reach back. The only thing that comes to mind is it's priming the supination that they want to return to after the power pocket.

I think I know.
But you'll have to wait till i make the youtube video. =)

 

[drk_evns]

People trying to copy Drew and Simon and believe a myth that the pendulum is inferior.

I'm not so sure it's that they believe it's inferior. There is very little exposure to the style now, so most probably couldn't even articulate a difference.

Personally, I prefer a more traditional throw because I rely so heavy on angle manipulation—something that just isn't as malleable with a pendulum. You rely more on the flight of the discs, and therefore less stable discs overall, which is more difficult to predict naturally. I'm not saying you can't, I'm saying it requires more field work to deeply understand the flight of your discs regularly. The trade-off is your throw is more consistent (and likely more powerful) with a pendulum.

I find it's more of a sliding scale than a this-or-that anyways. When I power up, I naturally move into a more hyzer/pendulum swing than my slower more controlled shots. It doesn't look like Feldberg, but I can feel the leveraged forces in my body change a bit.

Agree it's not the how you get to the hit, but what happens when you get there. In nearly 20 years I think I've seen 99% of the ways you can effectively eject a disc from your hand.

I look at it a bit differently. To me, the hit is the least athletic of all the "positions" of the throw. How you get there is everything.

 

[ChrisinFL]

'How you get back into the backswing position isn't as important. it's about staying in rhythm and time"

Does anyone still teach/use DaveD's bent elbow technique? That was on their instructional printouts from the early 2000s.

I saw DaveD's video saying that. I kept my elbow bent for a while - helped me get away from rounding. Then I eventually just naturally outgrew it.

 

[Nick Carroll]

Why do most pros who briefcase carry undo the briefcase carry during the reach back? If you ate going to pronate on the way into the power pocket, why not already be pronated in the reach back. The only thing that comes to mind is it's priming the supination that they want to return to after the power pocket.

I've been looking into this as a fix for my particular swing issues and, while sometimes it's great when you land it, but when it's off the disc flies out of control. That's coming from an am with bad form who decided against using the briefcase position, suitcase grip, or whatever it's called. I've never heard it referred to as the "bent elbow" technique, but if that's the same thing then I'll keep that in mind.

The 2 biggest pros in particular I can recall offhand are Simon and Gannon. But it's a way of bringing the elbow up and prevent the upper arm from externally rotating - subsequently preventing a swoop of the disc as the arm swings. I'm sure as heck not going to tell them they're doing it wrong. But I do think keeping the disc level (whatever level it's on) throughout the swing will minimize wobble (in addition to anything else done that can do that).

The key is to get the disc rotated flat (or whatever angle is needed) by the time the disc reaches the power pocket. If it's not correct by that point, be sure to pay attention where that disc goes. But personally I think it's a workaround, and it's best to keep that disc on-plane throughout the entire swing, because it eliminates the disc warping as it travels forward in your hand. But people absolutely make it work and I don't fault anyone for using it. I think anyone with a swooping elbow issue owes it to themselves to at least try it out, and see how it goes.