Backhands are all nose-up.

[mbowen000]

Hi all. Looking for some analysis / critique on what is most questionable or wrong about my form. I'm really having noticeable nose-up backhand throws where, especially with a tailwind I can see the flight plate and just see all of the speed killed about half way through its flight. In my uploaded video its worth noting that probably half my shots I pull right of my target line (see first throw). My target is the end of that curvy sidewalk on the left side of the video but my shots commonly go about 100ft right towards those trees and the upslope.



I browse DGCR forums a lot, read heavydisc like its the bible and have watched soo many videos (mostly SWs) and followed tons of other form critique threads so I can tell the following things might be wrong all in combination, it's just, as we all know, SO hard to correct bad habits. I've played disc golf since 2005-10 and then from 2018 until now, and so much of my throw was engrained from ultimate and self-teaching myself disc golf before I watched any pros. So any particular "big chunks" I could bite off and fix with particular drills would be much appreciated. Do you guys think I will need to go to standstills to correct things? I hate the idea of going full reset but I want to hear the experts' advice on what is really going to help.

• My Elbow probably not high enough. Vortica's article [1] says "stupidly high" is the right amount. Should I just focus on driving the elbow and getting it higher? As I was doing form work last summer I remember keeping the elbow was helping me get some nose down flights but now it doesn't seem to be helping. See attached photo and how the nose is "dipping" before my release. I've seen that commonly in film of my throws and think it could be an issue.
• Overall timing: May it be that I'm going into my reachback too early? My shoulders are definitely opening too soon.
• Weight transfer: Am I getting my weight forward enough on my front foot? Is the timing off there due to the "overall timing" issue?
• Horse stance: I've tried to correct this with partial success over the last couple years with varied success. Its hard to tell in the grass but the back foot during x-step seems too wide and the front is SO difficult for me to plant closed. My hips naturally open outward it seems but also I think I just grew up pointing the toe forward to throw a frisbee.
• Missing the "power pocket" - Something I never seem to have found. See attached image for my disc at the left pec, not the right. So I'm not getting it deep enough.

Specifically to try to correct nose down, I've tried:

• Flexing my wrist downward (pouring coffee style)
• Keeping my arm relaxed, or loose through the throw until the last millisecond.
• Keeping my elbow up, although admittedly I think I'm doing this less and less lately as I focus on other things.
• Making sure my grip is aligned so the disc is below my index finger knuckle.

All these symptoms and problems! Just hoping for some medicine to make it better. My shots are capped about 200ft with putters and mids, 300ft with fairways, and 340ft with drivers. My putting game is the only thing keeping my under par, and my ability to consistently hit lines with my lacking power if I'm willing to sacrifice distance.

Thanks so much ahead of time for the helpful advice and time for anyone that chimes in!

[1]https://www.vorticasport.com/post/2017/09/08/12-classic-mistakes-in-disc-golf-no-4-classic-low-elbow

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, you are turning back too early, and opening up early - so your arms collapse back, wrist collapses - nose goes up. Harder to fix swing efficiency doing x-step, time to do something different.

Note how your upper arm is collapsing into chest into the top of backswing going into plant - your body is moving to left tee side and arm/disc moving toward right tee side. Basically want to do the opposite, striding more to right tee and backswing staying wide to left tee side. Your upper arm should be getting wider into top of backswing as shoulders turn further back as hips shift forward, arm stays in place - door frame drill.

Need to get both of your elbows forward. Lead elbow pulled out taut from body. Rear elbow forward tight to body to leverage the rest of the torso forward instead of collapsing back. Olympic hammer throw drill.

 

[mbowen000]

Wow, ultra-fast response from none other than SW22. How do you have so much time for us yokels asking form questions!? Thanks for the reply, and sounds like you've focused attention towards one symptom (of many in my swing) that is collapsing and not getting into the power pocket which is also causing the symptom of nose up while robbing me of so much power. Thanks! Some questions about your recommendations:

Yeah, you are turning back too early, and opening up early - so your arms collapse back, wrist collapses - nose goes up. Harder to fix swing efficiency doing x-step, time to do something different.

Do you have any recommendations on how to time the reach back better? Is this also best learned with door frame drills? I recently saw in another thread that I should be pumping forward when my rear leg is coming forward in the X-Step and then reach back as my front leg goes forward? Any drills to help time this better that you'd recommend? I don't do a "forward pump" and just kind of get set from the beginning - is it a must have to implement that? Or should I just focus on the reachback starting later by some cue?

Note how your upper arm is collapsing into chest into the top of backswing going into plant - your body is moving to left tee side and arm/disc moving toward right tee side. Basically want to do the opposite, striding more to right tee and backswing staying wide to left tee side. Your upper arm should be getting wider into top of backswing as shoulders turn further back as hips shift forward, arm stays in place - door frame drill.

So the point where my arm is collapsing I tried to isolate in an attached .gif - you are saying that the upper arm (at the shoulder joint) should remain isolated and I should be keeping the disc out wider? (see screenshot with lines attached). I can definitely try to do that and replicate what KJ is doing in the clip you provided. I suppose that makes sense that it will allow more room for my elbows to move forward and get into the pocket more with the disc. I feel like it's so counter-intuitive that the arm should get wider as I move into the swing! I'll do some door frame drills to help reinforce this, I didn't really realize that was an outcome of that drill.

Need to get both of your elbows forward. Lead elbow pulled out taut from body. Rear elbow forward tight to body to leverage the rest of the torso forward instead of collapsing back. Olympic hammer throw drill.

Do you mean "get both elbows forward" as I come forward with my swing? My best throws with my current form are definitely the ones where I keep my elbow in tight, it seems like I throw on a more flat plane and get more snap out of the disc. Interesting that the rear elbow position (I just thought of as arm position) makes such a large difference to the rest of the swing.

In general, I'll focus on the improved timing (delayed reach back), keeping that upper arm angle maintained > 90 degrees, and keeping my elbows forward. I'll post some video of that. Is there a best angle for showing that? I can re-orient the tripod to best capture.

 

[sidewinder22]

It is not required, but I highly recommend pumping, even if just as a drill. Right leg step and right arm extend together to start x-step toward target. Then right leg and arm counter into plant as you turn everything back together. Top of backswing should be about when most of your weight shifts to the front foot. I recommend keeping both elbows forward the entire time, left elbow must be moved before right elbow to crack the whip.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133733