[Innova] Caiman

[Twmccoy]

Sexton was bagging the Caiman for a while. I haven't seen a recent ITB so maybe not anymore. The Caiman is back in my bag since I lost my favorite JB Zone.

I am really loving the Caiman again, I find that once broken in it's sneaky long for a utility midrange. It's getting the majority of my reps on forehand approaches, and overstable tee shots in the 240-280' range. I can push it further if needed, but it's usually easier to just throw a Firebird.

This is pretty much where I'm at. I haven't thrown the Caiman since I bagged it for a couple rounds and wrote the review. If I did bag it, it would be in place of my FLX Zone.

The Caiman performed just fine, but was maybe a hair short of what I'd like for the shots I was using it for. I tend to reach for the Firebird often as well for shots I don't feel like I can quite reach with an overstable putter/mid.

I currently have a Malta in the bag, and it flies further than the Caiman and doesn't fade as quickly or harshly. The Malta covers overstable mid shots pretty well unless the wind is howling.

I still need to try the Rat and Mortar. When I do, I'll write up reviews of them as well.

 

[EllEstar]

Anyone broken a Star Caiman in? I bag Mako3s and Caimans and would love something flat and beadless in the 0/2 stability range produced by Innova. So far the closest I've gotten are Shark3s, but I like the feel and flight of the Caiman more and am wondering if I should just try to beat one in to get that flight.

 

[JameyO]

Anyone broken a Star Caiman in? I bag Mako3s and Caimans and would love something flat and beadless in the 0/2 stability range produced by Innova. So far the closest I've gotten are Shark3s, but I like the feel and flight of the Caiman more and am wondering if I should just try to beat one in to get that flight.

A Rat feels similar to the caiman and mako and fits between them. Smaller diameter like the caiman. Flat, beadless, and generally considered less stable than the listed flight numbers.

If you don't mind gstar plastic, a mortar in frontline-x (made by innova) is a little less over stable and will glide a little farther than a star caiman. Feels just a little deeper to me.

 

[EllEstar]

A Rat feels similar to the caiman and mako and fits between them. Smaller diameter like the caiman. Flat, beadless, and generally considered less stable than the listed flight numbers.

If you don't mind gstar plastic, a mortar in frontline-x (made by innova) is a little less over stable and will glide a little farther than a star caiman. Feels just a little deeper to me.

Thanks. I have a Rat and I like it, but it fits more into the overstable putter type slot for me. Maybe the one I got is overstable but it flies close to the numbers to me, honestly similar stability as my Star Caiman, but less stable than the Champ, and is consistently 20-30' shorter.

I'd love to try a Mortar but I don't think I've ever seen one for sale anywhere I get discs, online or in stores.

 

[hartigan5279]

Thanks. I have a Rat and I like it, but it fits more into the overstable putter type slot for me. Maybe the one I got is overstable but it flies close to the numbers to me, honestly similar stability as my Star Caiman, but less stable than the Champ, and is consistently 20-30' shorter.

I'd love to try a Mortar but I don't think I've ever seen one for sale anywhere I get discs, online or in stores.

Millennium has some X-Outs on their website from the looks of it.

https://shop.golfdisc.com/millennium-golf-discs/model-variations/mortar-variations

But they look to be the 1.5 run which has a microbead.

 

[Keller]

A Rat feels similar to the caiman

Ummm.......No.

Caiman has a much wider rim and a totally different feel.

 

[EllEstar]

Millennium has some X-Outs on their website from the looks of it.

https://shop.golfdisc.com/millennium-golf-discs/model-variations/mortar-variations

But they look to be the 1.5 run which has a microbead.

Good find, but shipping to my country forces me to order several discs at once if I'm ordering from the US to keep shipping cost/disc down and they don't carry anything else I'm looking for :/

 

[JameyO]

Ummm.......No.

Caiman has a much wider rim and a totally different feel.

Haha...well ok then...

I only flick both of them and the rim width difference is hardly noticeable. They both feel flat and similar enough depth. I imagine wrapping fingers around the rim in a backhand grip would make the rim width differences more noticeable.

 

[bnrstnkr]

The Caiman rim is 3mm thicker than the Rat according to PDGA specs. That is something you would notice unless you have gangrene

 

[hawgdriver]

Caiman is legit

 

[mostlynorwegian]

Haha...well ok then...

I only flick both of them and the rim width difference is hardly noticeable. They both feel flat and similar enough depth. I imagine wrapping fingers around the rim in a backhand grip would make the rim width differences more noticeable.

The Rat does not feel at all similar to the Caimain, and for me the Rat just wasn't cutting it for FH duties because of how it felt. Not enough meat to hold onto.

 

[Sydex]

Picked up a Star Caiman. I'm thinking I received a dud. My understanding is these are supposed to be similar to Gators. However, mine has way more glide. Which, did help me land a throw-in from roughly 250' forehand. The fade is very hooklike. Searching for the ground the second it starts to fade.

Are Star Caiman's generally glidey?

 

[@CD-]

Picked up a Star Caiman. I'm thinking I received a dud. My understanding is these are supposed to be similar to Gators. However, mine has way more glide. Which, did help me land a throw-in from roughly 250' forehand. The fade is very hooklike. Searching for the ground the second it starts to fade.

Are Star Caiman's generally glidey?

I don't think your results are unusual at 250' of FH power. The Caiman mold is a bit more v-techy with the rounded beadless bottom rim. This puts more mass in the outer rim vs. the Gator which helps with FH torque and delays the fade until later in the low speed flight..

What kind of Gator are you comparing it to? I think you could probably get similar flights with some adjustment to release angle with a Caiman. Have you tried standstill FHs with it to compare with a Gator?

 

[Sydex]

I don't think your results are unusual at 250' of FH power. The Caiman mold is a bit more v-techy with the rounded beadless bottom rim. This puts more mass in the outer rim vs. the Gator which helps with FH torque and delays the fade until later in the low speed flight..

What kind of Gator are you comparing it to? I think you could probably get similar flights with some adjustment to release angle with a Caiman. Have you tried standstill FHs with it to compare with a Gator?

I'm saying my throw-in was roughly 250' out. Otherwise, it was a very straight mid.

As for the Gator, I was comparing it to, I've been tossing Gators since, I'm not sure, 2009. So just what I know a Gator to be (70% Champ and Metal Flake with a Star and DX sprinkled in). I probably threw a few standstills and still felt the glide was more than the number suggest. Overall, my main impression was that Star Caiman was glidey. It made it difficult to range the disc in most cases.

However, if it does have the V-Tech rim, I'm not surprised with the results. In that case, not what I was looking for with the disc. But not completely without use.

 

[gammaxgoblin]

I'm saying my throw-in was roughly 250' out. Otherwise, it was a very straight mid.

As for the Gator, I was comparing it to, I've been tossing Gators since, I'm not sure, 2009. So just what I know a Gator to be (70% Champ and Metal Flake with a Star and DX sprinkled in). I probably threw a few standstills and still felt the glide was more than the number suggest. Overall, my main impression was that Star Caiman was glidey. It made it difficult to range the disc in most cases.

However, if it does have the V-Tech rim, I'm not surprised with the results. In that case, not what I was looking for with the disc. But not completely without use.

how bout a croc?

 

[mostlynorwegian]

I don't think your results are unusual at 250' of FH power. The Caiman mold is a bit more v-techy with the rounded beadless bottom rim. This puts more mass in the outer rim vs. the Gator which helps with FH torque and delays the fade until later in the low speed flight..

Erm, no. It's not v-tech. It's concave with a microbead that is basically the same bottom as the Cro, and the Mortar. The top is very similar to the Mortar.

 

[@CD-]

Erm, no. It's not v-tech. It's concave with a microbead that is basically the same bottom as the Cro, and the Mortar. The top is very similar to the Mortar.

I do not think they are running all the Caimans through the flat top processing that the Mortar goes through. Without that flat top process the Gator & Mortar both come out domey in premium plastics. Maybe the Caiman is the same bottom as the Mortar (microbeaded, L mold).

The Caiman came out at the same time as the Innova produced MD5 for Discmania and followed the release of the Gator3 (CFR only). This leads me to believe the flat top these all have was a new mold piece that does not require the flat top processing (along with the Innova tooling on bottom being different so the 'core' mold piece is also new).

The MD5 may be the VTech Gator bottom but the microbead Mortar/Caiman (L) bottom still pushes a bit more of the mass out near the edge vs. the regular bead Gator (X) bottom. The Gator3 top seems to have a more blunt and steeply rounded shoulder as well vs. the normal Gator top (even flat topped for the Mortar).

Comparing the PDGA Rim config for these
Gator3 & Gator - 49.50
Mortar - 56.75
MD5 - 62.25
Caiman - 66.50

 

[Sydex]

how bout a croc?

Good suggestion, I'm thinking of just sticking to a Gator for now. Tried and true.

 

[bnrstnkr]

Caiman has been great for me but the Toro has mostly shoved it out of the bag. Though I've missed it a few times and I think it will be coming back as it fits in line with the stability ranges with other new slow discs better.

(Aero/Aviar Driver/Aviar3/Toro/Caiman instead of Nova/KC Aviar/Omega4/AviarX3/Toro)