Color and Stability

[Rol6566]

I think i remember reading somewhere that the Pink ESP Forces were more stable than the rest

 

[bettsjc]

Someone drag bretttallen into this discussion.

I have no personal experience with any certain color. I don't think color would play a part in stability, but if a specific run is only done in certain colors I can get on board with that. But I do know Brett is partial to Orange Star Sidewinders and Red Star Destroyers(The Destroyers having a black stamp, that is).

 

[judson]

oOn a molecular level, plastics are long chains of hydrocarbons with infinite possiblities and hit or miss properties. Thousands of chain lengths have been tested and documented for properties in other applications. Flexiblity, shrinkage,friction, expansion/contraction via temp are only a few of the properties documented but would certainly affect the flight patterns of seemingly Identical discs. Different colors of polyethylenes are different molecules or chain lengths and may very well have different effects on how seemingly identical discs fly. Purity of chain lengths and intentional blends of different lengths also affect the properties. In this, harmonics play a big role.

Dyed discs are a different type of pigment. The dye sits in between the molecules as opposed to changing them chemicaly much like adding carbon to iron making steel. It doesn't bond with the iron but sits in between to atoms. Heat is used in both instances to get them inside.

Probably TMI but a brief touch on biochemistry. Homework is done, now get out and throw.

 

[SirRaph]

I'd say that it was hocus pocus, but different plastics fly dramatically differently, even when the disc is new. Glow plastic shouldn't be dramatically different from Champion or Z plastic. Yet it seems to always act more overstable.

So what could be affected by adding a color additive to the plastic?

1. Weight distribution, maybe. If the additive gave the plastic more or less mass, the weight distribution would change from color to color.

2. Changing the curing process. If an additive changed the way the plastic cooled, it could change the PLH. Or even if it changed how easily it changed shape during shipment or play.

3. Friction, possibly. Changing the ease with which air moved across the surface, but I doubt this is the culprit, as the other two seem more plausible.

4. Different colors are run in different batches. Pink was run on Monday, by Frank, who prefers to stack the discs on top of each other while on long smoke breaks. Green is run on Tuesday, by Johnny, who likes to keep the shop door open in January. etc. The issue with this explanation, of course, is that any green disc you buy could have been made during any one of 25 different days when green was run. Johnny couldn't have done ALL the green discs.


Here's the real question. I can see how different plastics could change the above properties. I could see how adding a compound that glowed in the dark, or adding sparkling flakes could change it. But how different, chemically, can a pink dye be from a blue dye? Or a green from a yellow?

 

[discmeister]

Good Info!!

 

[optidiscic]

I'm prescribing to the yellow is less durable and becomes less stable theory....perhaps due to it being less opaque of a color?

 

[Labelkills]

The color of a disc could effect the damage that uv light (sunlight) doesto it over time.

 

[biscoe]

the first discs i remember needing to be extremely color conscious on were cyclones and cyclone 2's back in the mid-90's. green cyclones were noticeably more os than white. some purple cylone 2's were complete meathooks even at low weights... my guess is color still matters due to a number of factors most of which have already been mentioned.

 

[skottyb]

I recall watching a USDGC video a few years ago where Billy Crump interviewed Avery Jenkins about the course, I think it was one of those "Whats in the Bag" while playing the USDGC vids.

He had 3 Red Star Teebirds and he even mentioned he chose them in red because they were more stable then the other colors. I'll see if I can dig this up.

 

[optidiscic]

From another website:


The color in plastic comes from pigments melted into the plastic. Typically, the colors are derived out of the various oxidation states available to metals. Chromium has several oxidation states and is hence a favorite for deriving coloured pigments for blending plastics. Copper can be blue, or green. Iron can be blue, red or black. Titanium is white and chromium adds most of the rest of the colors. The balance is a matter of blending the base colors together.



Read more: How do they add color to plastics? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/53933#ixzz1C9iPOY6V

So if the color is derived from chromium, titanium, copper, and iron and these are all basic elements there has to be an effect on the chemical bonds of the plastic.......I'm liking the discs that have Iron and Copper in them (blue, red, black, green)
This also seems to add substance to the darker shades of pink, darker shades of blue, as being more stable as these have less of that dastardly chromium or titanium in them........I'm no expert but just putting this out there for thought.

Is darker maybe better? Purples, blues, greens, Reds in deep shades perhaps

 

[simpletwist]

I'll add this thought to the mix. I have 2 Discraft Flicks. LOVE the Flick. One is a fly dye in a dark yin/yang kind of pattern. But it easily gets lost, even in the shadows of tall grass. So I got a hot pink Flick, same weight. The hot pink Flick is no where near as overstable as the fly dye, and it also flies 30 to 50 feet further on average. Perhaps its the run. I just don't know. But they do fly differently.

 

[optidiscic]

Ive heard that tye dyes actually are much harder, much more stable than other discs.....my experience has been of this same as I have an Eagle champ tye dye thats way more stable than more translucent champ eagles.

Many People laugh at me when I bring it up but I do believe it and as I said earlier anyone whos played more than 10 yrs seems to prescribe to this through trial and error.

 

[simpletwist]

Ive heard that tye dyes actually are much harder, much more stable than other discs.....my experience has been of this same as I have an Eagle champ tye dye thats way more stable than more translucent champ eagles.

Many People laugh at me when I bring it up but I do believe it and as I said earlier anyone whos played more than 10 yrs seems to prescribe to this through trial and error.

Ya know the fly dye does seem harder.

 

[optidiscic]

Ya know the fly dye does seem harder.

thats because it is
:clap:

I'm sure all the different deep colors added to a tye dye actually make the plastic more stable....especially since tye dyes have a plethora of reds, blues, blacks, greens, and minimize the lighter colors.......in a twist tye dye gets lost easier (probably lots of stable plastic tye dyes to the left the fairways at your favorite course!

 

[Triflusal]

thats because it is
:clap:

I'm sure all the different deep colors added to a tye dye actually make the plastic more stable....especially since tye dyes have a plethora of reds, blues, blacks, greens, and minimize the lighter colors.......in a twist tye dye gets lost easier (probably lots of stable plastic tye dyes to the left the fairways at your favorite course!

how do the colors add more stability if it doesn't effect weight? (this is meant for the tie dyes)

EDIT: I read everything too, this never came up

 

[optidiscic]

Harder plastics have less friction on the molecular level thus u really have to get them moving to get any high speed turn out of them

harder plastics are also faster for this reason

they also last longer durability wise

an old ce disc is way harder than a current pro disc for example

harder is better. True story. Some colors by deuduction seem to be harder

 

[Triflusal]

Harder plastics have less friction on the molecular level thus u really have to get them moving to get any high speed turn out of them

harder plastics are also faster for this reason

they also last longer durability wise

an old ce disc is way harder than a current pro disc for example

harder is better. True story. Some colors by deuduction seem to be harder

How would the addition of tie dye colors matter then? Wouldn't it fly the same with or without the colors?

 

[SirRaph]

From another website:


The color in plastic comes from pigments melted into the plastic. Typically, the colors are derived out of the various oxidation states available to metals. Chromium has several oxidation states and is hence a favorite for deriving coloured pigments for blending plastics. Copper can be blue, or green. Iron can be blue, red or black. Titanium is white and chromium adds most of the rest of the colors. The balance is a matter of blending the base colors together.



Read more: How do they add color to plastics? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/53933#ixzz1C9iPOY6V

So if the color is derived from chromium, titanium, copper, and iron and these are all basic elements there has to be an effect on the chemical bonds of the plastic.......I'm liking the discs that have Iron and Copper in them (blue, red, black, green)
This also seems to add substance to the darker shades of pink, darker shades of blue, as being more stable as these have less of that dastardly chromium or titanium in them........I'm no expert but just putting this out there for thought.

Is darker maybe better? Purples, blues, greens, Reds in deep shades perhaps

That blows me away. So there could actually be different metals worked into the plastics.

That leads me to this question, though. Iron and titanium have a vastly different weight to them. I'm doubting that there's very much of these metals added to the plastics, or the each of the colors would come out in different weights. It must be a minuscule amount.
Which makes me think that if this is the culprit, the real cause isn't that the differing metals cause a weight distribution change similar to the way that Champion vs. Star vs. DX does. But more that it causes a change in the way the discs cool and set, leading to a differing shape/PLH.

What I'd like to know is if anyone has two identical discs, (mold, dome, weight and PLH) but in different colors. And how those two discs fly comparitively.

 

[jdw80550]

They're making many of the Opto in fairly vibrant colors now, and all the blitzs I've ever seen are also pretty darkly colored.
Nothing like the opaque champs though, but thats largely from the weighing agents, apparently. The weight-opacity difference is more visible in Z too I think - light hornets and buzzzes can be extremely translucent.
I guess my opto core could be a nice disc if it were a dark purple (its basically a fuse these days)

I had a neon green clear blitz, still really over stable, easy to lose though.

 

[JR Stengele]

That blows me away. So there could actually be different metals worked into the plastics.

That leads me to this question, though. Iron and titanium have a vastly different weight to them. I'm doubting that there's very much of these metals added to the plastics, or the each of the colors would come out in different weights. It must be a minuscule amount.
Which makes me think that if this is the culprit, the real cause isn't that the differing metals cause a weight distribution change similar to the way that Champion vs. Star vs. DX does. But more that it causes a change in the way the discs cool and set, leading to a differing shape/PLH.

What I'd like to know is if anyone has two identical discs, (mold, dome, weight and PLH) but in different colors. And how those two discs fly comparitively.

Enough metal however to make airline security question them from time to time. I remember when I started playing over 10 years ago they though I was trying to smuggle something through securtiy. Forntunately, enough people travel w/ discs these days that they are becomming more familiar with the sport. I remember thinking that if they took my bag I might go postal on the spot.