Disc Distance Spacing

[wonderflex]

My dad is a ball golfer and knows the exact distance he will hit with a given club on average.

If I throw all discs with the same form and MPH, giving me a disc average similar to his club average, how many feet apart would I want my increments to be when building my bag?

Ignoring my inexperience and wimpy throws, currently this is my spacing with average distance with straight controlled throws:

Dart: 210 ft
Roc3 / Shark 3: 240 ft (+30 ft)
TL: 270 ft (+30 ft)
Valkyrie: 330 ft (+60 ft)

I saw a video where they recommended +50 feet, but would +30 be better because that would be the difference of putt between the spacing of 50?

Also do people build bags this way like my dad does ball golf, such as this is my 350 ft disc, my 320 ft disc, my 290 ft disc, etc, or do most people go wider and vary their throw speed I instead?

 

[tbird888]

Trees line your dad's fairways. They ARE our fairways. As such, you have to consider the turn and fade characteristics of your discs when you don't have to do that for golf clubs.

 

[wonderflex]

Trees line your dad's fairways. They ARE our fairways. As such, you have to consider the turn and fade characteristics of your discs when you don't have to do that for golf clubs.

Of course, of course. When you take that into consideration too, do you then have something such as:

280 ft - overstable, stable, understable, etc.
310 ft - overstable, stable, understable, etc.
...and so on and so forth.

 

[slowplastic]

Of course, of course. When you take that into consideration too, do you then have something such as:

280 ft - overstable, stable, understable, etc.
310 ft - overstable, stable, understable, etc.
...and so on and so forth.

Yeah I like this approach moreso. Your putter, mid, fairway spacing seems good but that Valk is bombing way out there. I'd expect 30-40' at most over a TL, unless you have a very US Valk.

What you have to keep in mind is the more OS a disc then the less distance it will get. So something like a Valk or Sidewinder that is speed 9 and US will go much farther than an OS speed 9 like a Thunderbird, for most players. At a certain point the US discs get unpredictable. But say at about 60MPH I would expect a Teebird to be 350', a Thunderbird about 350' as well, and a Sidewinder or Valk about 380'. It depends on the specific disc's stability, but just to show you how speed and stability of the disc itself can shape the distance at the same release velocity.

Generally putters will take over everything from putting to 250+ straight shots, mids will overlap a bit with the far end of putters but be hard to control the landing at shorter ranges than that, and then fairways will take over from there. Certain cases you'll throw an OS fairway in the same distance as a straight and glidey midrange. Different lines/stabilities make it more complicated than just choosing a distance range.

Throwing on a soccer or football field on many occasions will help out, and you'll get an idea of +/-15' or so for every disc and power level so you just know your ranges.

 

[wonderflex]

Yeah I like this approach moreso. Your putter, mid, fairway spacing seems good but that Valk is bombing way out there. I'd expect 30-40' at most over a TL, unless you have a very US Valk. ...

...Throwing on a soccer or football field on many occasions will help out, and you'll get an idea of +/-15' or so for every disc and power level so you just know your ranges.

Although I've been playing a few years it's been purely recreational up to this point. I watched some videos and tried slowing down and working on form. I got those numbers from an hour and a half on the football field and towards the end the Valkyrie kicked in and jumped up to 330. At first it was going the same distance as the TL.

If you want to talk about freak events though, I took a blizzard boss (which I bought before I realized how discs/speed work) and I threw one throw to 420 feet about 50 to the right, no skip/roll and a other go 375 feet and about 100 feet to the right. I've never thrown that far before and I have no clue what I did almost correctly, but it blew my mind for a second.

 

[slowplastic]

Although I've been playing a few years it's been purely recreational up to this point. I watched some videos and tried slowing down and working on form. I got those numbers from an hour and a half on the football field and towards the end the Valkyrie kicked in and jumped up to 330. At first it was going the same distance as the TL.

If you want to talk about freak events though, I took a blizzard boss (which I bought before I realized how discs/speed work) and I threw one throw to 420 feet about 50 to the right, no skip/roll and a other go 375 feet and about 100 feet to the right. I've never thrown that far before and I have no clue what I did almost correctly, but it blew my mind for a second.

Yeah I'm definitely not saying something is wrong with your Valk going that far, moreso that if you are throwing it 330ish I'd expect you to get the TL to 300ish and mids to 275 or so. I bet you'll push those other discs to those numbers if you keep the Valk in the 330 range.

Are you planting with your feet in line/parallel to your aim point? You should be offset/closed so you can roughly trace a line from your rear toes through your front heel to the target. My point is, if you are planting too parallel these freak throws may actually be more correct with your body position, just you are setting up your feet incorrectly so your real release point will be like 20-30 degrees right of "straight". When you then are trying to hit the straight line, you are early releasing relative to your foot position.

 

[BrotherDave]

Generally yes I do this but it's low on the priority list. It generally shakes out into these categories:

•putters
♦fast putters/slow mids
•mids (wide diameter i.e. Roc)
♦fast mids (smaller diameter)
•hybrids (mid/driver i.e. Squall, Kaxe, etc)
♦FW drivers (speed 7-8 i.e. Teebird)
•Control drivers (early distance drivers aka speed 9-10)
♦Distance drivers (speed 11+)

Most people will skip a category to avoid overlap like me for example, I like fast putters for throwing and fast mids so I don't carry any wide mids except a Fuse. I carry FW drivers, control drivers and distance drivers but the control drivers are primarily used for FH. The most popular categories people traditionally carry is in bold.

 

[Bardu]

My ball golf experience is from 20 years ago, but one factor that pertains to disc selection and bag size is that most golf clubs (and balls) are similar. There are woods are there are irons, a 2 iron is different from a sand wedge, but in general if you can hit one, you can hit them all.

Discs are much more unique (in comparison) and have individual characteristics that you must learn. In general, just because you can throw one does not mean you can throw another at least in my experience. IMO, it is an advantage to fewer discs in this respect. You can better learn your disc through more repetitions and learning to throw different shots with it. You also have less discs that you have to be "on" with. It also teaches you to learn the different throws yourself rather than depending on the disc to do the work (although not everyone chooses to play it this way).

The factor that will contribute to the size of your bag (as referenced above) is stability. I don't personally use an understable and overstable disc at each level. I use a Firebird and power it down to handle all ranges of overstable shots. Similarly, the Sidewinder is the only truly understable disc in my bag.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

For me there isnt a ton of distance differences from putters to slower drivers but more about angle of attack and landings or wind etc. Sure the 11+ speed discs can add some D but 4-6 speeds fly 400'+ too and many will never throw that far with even a high speeder.

Do i want a low skip shot or a high nose up stall out? Straight with late turn or slow turn the whole fairway? Glidey hyzer or dump to the ground asap? Up or down hill?

Once you improve a little you will find putter/mid molds to fly very far. Keep in mind most players will never unlock the technique to throw 500+. Some of the new higher speed understable molds will give some "easy" D but hard as hell to control. There is not the same type of separation between discs molds as there are with golf clubs at all. I never think oh this is a 7 iron or 3w kind of hole. Hell most of the time the tee sign distances are wrong anyway lol.

 

[slowplastic]

^Yeah what AIM said is really how it ends up being once you know your shots and your discs.

For example my OS Destroyer that is my hyzer disc for 330+ shots will sometimes come out on 270' shots in the woods that need a low ceiling to crazy skip. Or maybe even a weird get out of trouble FH flex that needs to get around a bush then dive toward the pin 70' away. Then in a tailwind my straight mid like a Comet might get used for a 350' open shot.

There's definitely certain ranges I don't like to underpower a disc to as it gets unpredictable either because it becomes too floaty like a faster midrange, or too unlikely to stop at the landing zone like a wide rimmed driver. And certain times I don't want to overpower a disc too much like trying to crush a midrange down a 325+ tunnel because I'd rather not be worried about pulling it to the right. But there are certain instances where a disc's stability and also speed characteristics make it the right choice in weird situations. That's what takes a lot of experience to know your discs, and how a mid vs. fairway vs. high speed disc acts at the beginning and end of flight in general. There's definitely a lot more possibility when choosing shots for specific lines. In the wide open though I definitely think of it as ___ distance and OS/stable/US and choose the disc accordingly. In the woods then it becomes how much I know the disc specifically and how the fade characteristics will affect the end of flight and landing zone.

 

[Meillo]

Do i want a low skip shot or a high nose up stall out? Straight with late turn or slow turn the whole fairway? Glidey hyzer or dump to the ground asap? Up or down hill?

I'm in search for a guide that explains what adjustments to make to achieve all of these effects. Of course, I could just try and err myself, but rather I'd like to have explanations of all those aspects readily available. That would be really worthwhile material to study and work on. Do such resources exist?

I know about Blake_T's DGR training sessions. Week 1 is exactly this kind of practice, but it only describes the goal, but does not provide the background information on all the effects of changing the variables. I feel as I'll need years to become able to understand them, because I lack ability to control them well enough to adjust them separately and consistently, thus I remain unsure what effects what. Trial 'n error is too inefficient. We don't do trial 'n error for driving form neither. As we are really elaborate concerning driving technique, I wonder if I just haven't found the thorough information on changing variables and flights to achieve certain goals, as Aim mentioned above.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I'm in search for a guide that explains what adjustments to make to achieve all of these effects. Of course, I could just try and err myself, but rather I'd like to have explanations of all those aspects readily available. That would be really worthwhile material to study and work on. Do such resources exist?

I know about Blake_T's DGR training sessions. Week 1 is exactly this kind of practice, but it only describes the goal, but does not provide the background information on all the effects of changing the variables. I feel as I'll need years to become able to understand them, because I lack ability to control them well enough to adjust them separately and consistently, thus I remain unsure what effects what. Trial 'n error is too inefficient. We don't do trial 'n error for driving form neither. As we are really elaborate concerning driving technique, I wonder if I just haven't found the thorough information on changing variables and flights to achieve certain goals, as Aim mentioned above.

Sorry im not exactly clear what you are looking for re: a guide. Like how to use ABC discs vs XYZ on said holes or lines?

 

[Meillo]

Sorry im not exactly clear what you are looking for re: a guide. Like how to use ABC discs vs XYZ on said holes or lines?

This could be one part: Disc A with release/nose angles X vs disc B with angles Y on a given hole, where both discs might give you a similar flight but different landing angles and thus skips or rolls vs flat landings.

The ultimate goal would be some kind of matrix, with dimensions for disc stability, hyzer/anhyzer angles, nose angles, flight height, wind directions ... and the results of changing these factors.

Take Blake_T's line shaping exercise:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=595
How, for instance, do I throw a straight to fade shot with an understable disc? A hyzer flip, probably, But what about nose angle? Stall-outs provide a similar flight pattern, probably, they just vary in flight height ... I assume, but I'm not sure. Or the straight shot with an overstable disc? If I don't want to result in an S-line, I'd try to give it less anny, then throw it low in order to land it before it fades. Is this how it was meant? An explanations (solution) to these tasks would provide a lot of what I want.

And then, on top of this, a comparison of the different throws/discs for each line: How does the landing differ? In which situation is one prefered to the other? Which wind conditions do favor which disc/shot for the line? Such an analysis ... like a pattern book would be a great tool to have! Let's call it the DG shot pattern book.

Start with the basic shot types (see Blake_T's exercise), cover all discs stabilities. Analyse the resulting landing angles, wind affection, etc. Later take typical holes on courses and analyse the results of throwing different discs on different shots and their typical results.

 

[DarkAce1978]

This could be one part: Disc A with release/nose angles X vs disc B with angles Y on a given hole, where both discs might give you a similar flight but different landing angles and thus skips or rolls vs flat landings.

The ultimate goal would be some kind of matrix, with dimensions for disc stability, hyzer/anhyzer angles, nose angles, flight height, wind directions ... and the results of changing these factors.

Take Blake_T's line shaping exercise:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=595
How, for instance, do I throw a straight to fade shot with an understable disc? A hyzer flip, probably, But what about nose angle? Stall-outs provide a similar flight pattern, probably, they just vary in flight height ... I assume, but I'm not sure. Or the straight shot with an overstable disc? If I don't want to result in an S-line, I'd try to give it less anny, then throw it low in order to land it before it fades. Is this how it was meant? An explanations (solution) to these tasks would provide a lot of what I want.

And then, on top of this, a comparison of the different throws/discs for each line: How does the landing differ? In which situation is one prefered to the other? Which wind conditions do favor which disc/shot for the line? Such an analysis ... like a pattern book would be a great tool to have! Let's call it the DG shot pattern book.

Start with the basic shot types (see Blake_T's exercise), cover all discs stabilities. Analyse the resulting landing angles, wind affection, etc. Later take typical holes on courses and analyse the results of throwing different discs on different shots and their typical results.

I think you might be over thinking it. Many factors affect disc flight(temp, wind, etc.), how tired your arm is, mental state. Some days throwing just doesn't feel right. I am not sure investing that amount of effort on the flight of individual discs is worth it. Just my 2 cents

 

[wonderflex]

With each person having large variation in arm speed and form quality I'm not sure how useful that would be on an individual level, but since you know what you are looking for why not try starting that yourself?

I would start by creating a feet per second board (http://www.instructables.com/id/measure-Feet--per-second,-or-miles-per-hour/), to allow you to film yourself throwing in front of it with a camera that is able to record enough fps to allow for a MPH calculation. This will also be your nose angle camera. Next setup a camera in front of you that could record your hyzer vs anhyzer angle. Last setup a camera behind you that can record your flight pattern. Film a throw with every variable you would like to meausre, take angle readings from film and compile in post.

Beyond this I bet there is a computer program or there that could do this, but that wouldn't be as fun as learning it the old fashioned way.