Do Pros Practice What They Preach?

[jenb]

Is it just me, or does it seem like pros teach one thing at clinics and practice another on the course? For example, I see a lot of clinics where pros teach bent elbow technique and a straight pull through, but then see those same pros throwing with straight arm technique and rounding. Anyone else notice this sort of thing?

 

[disco40]

Examples?

But to relate this to pool, some legendary pros have neglected major fundamentals. Doesn't mean they're hypocritical, because the fundamentals are nearly universal even though there are exceptions.

 

[sidewinder22]

Some of it is Feel vs Real, and Static vs Dynamic. You cannot achieve the same exact positions of a throw, when not throwing in real speed.

 

[jakebake91]

It's easy to know what to do. It's harder to execute it perfectly.

 

[seedlings]

If you're really good at doing a technique properly; then you have the luxury of incorporating laziness.

 

[Rastnav]

Some of it is Feel vs Real, and Static vs Dynamic. You cannot achieve the same exact positions of a throw, when not throwing in real speed.

But isn't it also the case that the classic "rounding" is actually a collapse/loss of the angle between shoulder and torso?

So, some of the pros that look like they are "rounding" are really just bending their elbow slightly, as well as achieving greater rotation of their trunk and hips. As they rotate forward, they never have to recover the shoulder angle and simply rotate into the power pocket.

It looks like they are rounding, because the elbow is slightly bent and the disc seems to be behind them, but as their hips and trunk rotate, the disc never gets stuck behind them. It just rotates into the "wide rail" before the pocket.

Or is this off base?

 

[dekdo]

None of the pros with 500+ are rounding. The only one that stands out to me with a different technique is GG

 

[Hampstead]

I imagine some of the top pros know their form isn't ideal, but they're smart enough to teach good form to new players.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[seedlings]

It's a shame that nowadays kids don't mow with decade old push mowers. Remarkable the life lessons taught.

 

[_MTL_]

One of the great cons in disc golf that is that the elite players are the best teachers and that you can't teach unless you are really good.

The best teacher I've had for disc golf is rated around 820.

 

[ChrisWoj]

One of the great cons in disc golf that is that the elite players are the best teachers and that you can't teach unless you are really good.

The best teacher I've had for disc golf is rated around 820.

Yeah but Blake T hasn't been current since 2007.

(guessing that isn't who you were referring to, but if I remember right he was famously lower-rated)

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah but Blake T hasn't been current since 2007.

(guessing that isn't who you were referring to, but if I remember right he was famously lower-rated)

IIRC Blake got to around 920.

 

[ChrisWoj]

IIRC Blake got to around 920.

Considering the info he shared was about 1060 rated, I'd still call that famously lower-rated.

 

[_MTL_]

Yes, Blake.

I didn't realize he was that high.

Still, point remains.

 

[dmoore1998]

1. People who are really good at things are not necessarily the best teachers of things.
2. Some people who are very good at things have a difficult time understanding what's actually happening mechanically when they do those things.
3. Sometimes what you would teach a beginner, intermediate, or even advanced person to do...is not the same thing you do as an elite.

As an example...a LOT of professional basketball players have wonky-looking shots...but those shots work for them...and many are working on them consistently. I would expect that if they were teaching a clinic, they'd teach people to shoot with what is generally accepted to be "good form" (elbow tucked in, hand directly behind the ball, etc). Some of them, if they had never had a video of themselves, would probably even think they had good form because of the way it feels...even though they definitely do not. I've been to a lot of basketball clinics in my day, I've never seen someone say "you know what, throw your elbow way out like a chicken wing when you shoot"...even from people who throw their elbow out like a chicken wing when they shoot.

 

[dmoore1998]

One of the great cons in disc golf that is that the elite players are the best teachers and that you can't teach unless you are really good.

The best teacher I've had for disc golf is rated around 820.

That holds true for a HUGE number of things...especially athletically. The identification of kinetic steps and an understanding of the process is critical for teaching athletic endeavors. A lot of high level athletes aren't doing those things via a thought process, they are doing them naturally or through muscle memory.

That skill of identifying the athletic process is a largely distinct skill from being able to put those steps together into a smooth athletic motion. Some of the best ball golf swing coaches are good players, but certainly not elite. They're just very good at seeing a swing and breaking down the motion mentally into how it varies from an "ideal motion".

 

[autocrosscrx]

People who start out bad at things and have to work really hard to improve have the best opportunity to become great teachers.

 

[Dingus]

If you were offered a golf lesson from Jim Furyk would you take it? If you got a lesson from Jim Furyk would you want to learn how to golf like Jim Furyk?

There are two reasons pros may be modifying the traditional bent elbow whip form. First, they may be trying to limit power. The majority of the spin and speed comes from the last levers, the fingers and wrist. If you "only" need 400' and your form pushes up to 550', maybe you will dumb down your stroke and eliminate one of the moving parts, the elbow. You lose distance but also lose a failure point, in addition to not blowing past the target. I bet everyone does this without thinking on approach shots, where you need 150' but your putter can fly 200'. Most people probably don't run into range limiting problems in the driver slot because their max range doesn't blow past the pin.

The second reason is that the modern consensus on form was not always a consensus. Ten years ago there was a split between "Swedish" form and the American "bent elbow" form. At this point there are relatively few pure Swedish throwers left, like Feldberg. But you can bet that at one point every top player that played through the great recession dabbled in Swedish form if not just out of curiosity. I may be mistaken but I think "Carolina" style was the name for the hybrid between the two, where you maintain a bent elbow but without the straight whip pull through.

At this point I believe the consensus is that bent elbow is the superior style and as such new players are trained to throw that way. I would expect any pro to teach the textbook form and not try to teach his own hybrid style.

 

[_MTL_]

Blake T last rating 918. Last event played was June 2006