Do you try to put more or less spin on your disc? Or just throw?

[armiller]

Hey all, I was playing recently and heard various folks talking about putting more or less spin on shots with certain discs. What about you? Do you think about how much spin?

 

[PBokor]

My experience counts for zilch, but I have found that almost any Innova disc requires more spin than an equivalent MVP for the same shot. Not a bad thing, just different.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

The consensus seems to be the other way around for MVP, in that MVP discs require a bit more snap and spin.

To the OP, I don't consciously adjust on drives. I do sometimes on shorter shorts, such as low ceiling approaches or something.

 

[PBokor]

Thought this thread was specific to putting.

Approaches and drives are a different critters.

 

[Mike C]

I try to intentionally throw with different levels of spin to achieve my lines.

200' hyzer approach with unlimited ceiling? I'm putting my Envy on a hyzer and not trying to spin in particularly hard, just letting the disc work.

340' tunnel shot ending in a slight right turn? I might rip my Proxy hard and flat, with a ton of spin, so that it gets forced into a mild turnover late in the flight and holds a slight right drift to the pin.

500' distance drive that needs to be straight to fade in a really strong tailwind? I might take a really flippy distance driver and throw it with a ton of spin and some hyzer. It will try to flip up and turnover, but the tail wind and high rate of spin will hold it relatively straight, while it glides down the fairway for massive distance.

For late breaking turnovers I find being able to manipulate spin is incredibly helpful. Throwing something flippy with a lot of hyzer and a ton of spin can make discs do strange things in the air.

 

[Kodachrome]

Spin is a byproduct of hand speed at release and strength of the grip, which both (of course with other variables in at such as disc stabilities etc) determine how far you are going to throw. I do not believe we will see an appreciable difference in spin from player to player at comparable speeds and distances unless we are dealing with extremely low disc speeds where you can actually choose to relax the grip a bit...and release before a full extension of the arm happens. Approaches and putting come to mind, moreso putting. Approaches are really the only "throw" where I might relax my grip to neuter my release speed (and therefore spin) because it's a pain in the ass to get a full extension on a very short throw with a lid and still be very accurate. Still not directly manipulating disc rotation, merely allowing my arm to travel at a more comfortable pace while throwing the object slower.

So, I'd argue that putts are the only meaningful situation where one can impart more/less spin and claim to exercise significant control.

I'm not a "very" advanced player. I do throw farther than most average league players, topping at 450' or so for my very best drives. I don't throw as far as many people out there, but I don't think this is a question of skill. And I certainly do consider myself somewhat adept at manipulating discs at low speeds. I love lids.

My answer is, don't even bother thinking about it. Not worth your time except for putts.....MAAAAYBE.

 

[AzteC]

the backhand throw just naturally adds spin to the disc. I never think "Oh I need to spin the disc THIS much" It just happens depending on how quick your arm speed is on the shot.

 

[VictorB]

I just throw. The only thing I'm concerned with is trying to keep my hand on the outside of the disc on drives. On approaches I don't worry so much about that.

 

[roggenb3]

So, I'd argue that putts are the only meaningful situation where one can impart more/less spin and claim to exercise significant control.

That all depends on your definition of significant. It's absolutely possible to take 2 drivers and throw them at the same speed and release angle, but spin one really hard and the other very little and watch "significantly" different flight paths result.

For example, when I play a 2 disc round and need to dogleg left, and my only non-putter is something super flippy, I'm throwing a steep hyzer with as little spin as possible to keep my flippy disc going left on the hyzer and not flipping up and over.

I don't know why people think it's such a difficult thing to control. It's really not.

For late breaking turnovers I find being able to manipulate spin is incredibly helpful. Throwing something flippy with a lot of hyzer and a ton of spin can make discs do strange things in the air.

Agreed. I do this with my Tursas to get it to wait until like 225' before turning right. It's beautiful.

 

[garublador]

That all depends on your definition of significant. It's absolutely possible to take 2 drivers and throw them at the same speed and release angle, but spin one really hard and the other very little and watch "significantly" different flight paths result.

For example, when I play a 2 disc round and need to dogleg left, and my only non-putter is something super flippy, I'm throwing a steep hyzer with as little spin as possible to keep my flippy disc going left on the hyzer and not flipping up and over.

I don't know why people think it's such a difficult thing to control. It's really not.

How do you know you're actually varying you spin that much and getting the results you expect? Sure you can get different flights, but you haven't isolated spin on those throws so the flight paths could be different for any number of other reasons. It probably doesn't matter why they fly different as long as you can control it, but I haven't seen anyone actually show that they can control spin independent of speed on a drive.

Here's a thread where a big arm thrower did some actual testing of spin:

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111158

He found that he had a hard time controlling spin by itself. He did show that a friend of his had a different speed to spin ratio, which suggests it's possible to control to some extent, but neither of them seemed to be able to control it, and one of the guys holds the world record for the longest thrown object.

 

[armiller]

One thing with throwing a disc is that I think it's impossible to change spin without changing speed. Speed comes from arm speed combined with that last second "flinging" of the disc around the grip point. Spin comes from that last part. I have a hard time conceptualizing how one could be changed without affecting the other. I'm sure some can do it to some degree, and I suppose that's why I'm interested in this discussion.

 

[runningDoc]

One thing with throwing a disc is that I think it's impossible to change spin without changing speed. Speed comes from arm speed combined with that last second "flinging" of the disc around the grip point. Spin comes from that last part. I have a hard time conceptualizing how one could be changed without affecting the other. I'm sure some can do it to some degree, and I suppose that's why I'm interested in this discussion.

At first glance your hypotheis seems correct, but then think about sidearm, and how you have to actively add spin by flicking/whipping it by actively cocking your wrist back and snapping it like a whip during the arm swing.

Backhand is a passive motion when it comes to adding spin. But you can fling putters and ultimate discs 200ft with barely any arm motion but a great active snap from a cocked wrists and actively putting more spin on the disc.

 

[ThrowBot]

Comment on the survey options:

The "pretty advanced" vs. "not very advanced" distinction is pretty ambiguous. If you're looking to sort responses between players of different skill levels, then ranges of player ratings would be a more solid basis of comparison. (The current phrasing is more of an ego test, so if you're looking to compare results along those lines then the options are perfect )

 

[armiller]

Comment on the survey options:

The "pretty advanced" vs. "not very advanced" distinction is pretty ambiguous. If you're looking to sort responses between players of different skill levels, then ranges of player ratings would be a more solid basis of comparison. (The current phrasing is more of an ego test, so if you're looking to compare results along those lines then the options are perfect )

Haha yeah. I wanted to let people sort themselves. So ego test it is... I wrote the options and then wasn't real sure which category to put myself in. I like it vague for this one. Slightly better than just a two-answer "spin or no?" poll, I hope.

And the answers are interesting so far.

 

[notroman]

I definitely don't throw as well now as I used to but I still try to control spin on my throws to some degree. Mostly it's to control the landing a little better. I try to put enough spin/power behind shorter shots to make sure the disc is running out of spin as it lands, so that it lands softer and doesn't get a lot of action. Same goes with dump hyzers - if I want to make sure they stick and don't go crazy once they hit the ground I try to put less spin on them so they just drop once they hit the ground. Likewise if I want the disc to skip a bunch on landing then I try to put extra spin on it.

I used to be able to control spin to affect the stability of the disc (early turn, late turn, side to side movement on flat shots, etc) but that is not something I can do with any consistency anymore. Who knows if I'll ever practice enough to get that back.

 

[roggenb3]

How do you know you're actually varying you spin that much and getting the results you expect?

I don't know what to say other than "because I can feel how much spin I put on it". Believe, don't believe, whatever. Obviously, I am not a machine, and not every single other variable is exactly the same. But...really? Spin CAN'T be controlled? Come on, man. That's just crazy talk.

It totally blows my mind that people are really trying to argue that spin is some kind of uncontrollable magic variable that just happens and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

[roggenb3]

I think there's a Schusterick video where he talks about going from all power grip shots to throwing all his sub 300' shots with a control grip. He cites better control of the spin as one of the reasons for doing that.

 

[Kodachrome]

If even a machine or a robot could somewhat consistently throw a lid (or any disc) forehand or backhand with a certain amount of spin and then throw the same distance with the same disc on the same release angle with more or less spin to the degree that it may appreciably impact the overall flight as people purport, I salute them. That is true control. But I'm pretty damn skeptical. To ask a human to do the same seems laughable.

Claiming you try to put more spin on a short finesse throw vs a spike hyzer upshot is irrelevant because you're throwing different shots that use different mechanics and therefore by their very nature may cause different results. If that's how we define control, then yeah. Sure. Everyone controls and modulates spin all the time by throwing different shots at different speeds with different rim widths on the discs. It's super ****in' easy.

I can throw a lid with a super soft backhand and give it a quick pinch at the end to ensure it has a good and stable flight at low speed. If I didn't, I'd fluff the shot or wobble it way off course. I can throw late turnovers and hyzerflips, hyzers, whatever. None of this is through purposeful manipulation of spin itself. It's by manipulating arm speed, release angles and nose angles, wrist roll, and only in very low speed situations do I vary my grip pressure.

Spin is not an independent variable in our throws.

Sorry to go on a ramble there. I know this is a poll, but that's my opinion on the whole mess. I think what most people refer to as "controlling their spin" is just them getting a better feel for the hit by slowing down their swing or changing grip for a cleaner release, trying to grip harder, etc. All these can cause the sensation of a good and clean pop off the fingers.

 

[stevefolfer]

Think of a freestyler throwing a disc with a lot of spin to his partner. He is throwing really hard with a ton of spin but very little forward speed. I think its possible to control spin separate from speed. Not sure how relevant that is to disc golf tho.

 

[armiller]

It totally blows my mind that people are really trying to argue that spin is some kind of uncontrollable magic variable that just happens and there's nothing you can do about it.

I don't think anyone is saying that. But a lot of people think of spin as a natural and inevitable byproduct of good form. Obviously some of us try to change the amount, and others don't.

It's not an uncontrollable magic variable, but I'm not convinced that controlling it is as important as some folks feel. Personally, I think I just let my disc selection do what some of you do with spin. I'm certainly no mold minimalist, and I'm also far from mastering some of the advanced shots you guys are good at.