Dynamic Discs statement RE:Am Worlds in Emporia will be a trophy-only tournament

[Three Putt]

I have read this thread and think that it is time to for a response from Dynamic Discs. There is a lot to cover and I will try to do my best to answer as many topics as possible that have been mentioned on this thread.

Dynamic Discs has been in the business of disc golf for eight years now and running events for almost as long. As a company, we host over 30+ PDGA events a year and sponsor hundreds of other events. Our two RV's travel the country and we see and experience more disc golfers in a year than anyone else in the world. Our number one goal at every event is for the player to have the best experience possible. We feel like with what resources, funding, and time that we have available, we do a great job at providing a very high level of service.

We have experimented with several different models for our tournaments but as a whole, they are all run almost identical. Amateur players almost always receive a $15 merchandise voucher as their player pack so that they can pick out whatever they want. The recreational division was converted to trophy only for the 2012 season and remains that way for 2013. These recreational players usually pay around $35 and receive a players package worth well over that and often compete for additional prizes. The size of our recreational division did decline in size, but our intermediate field increased in size. I can promise you that we did not discourage the true recreational player from coming out to our events! We do believe that we improved the recreational player tournament experience and hopefully help make sure that these players come back to play more tournaments.

Jennifer mentioned that our tournaments are having a difficult time with filling up now due to this decision. Some of our Texas events were a few players short of filling last year but I disagree 100% with this statement or assumption. The decision to make recreational trophy only was because we had players bagging in intermediate only to win nearly the same amount in prizes as someone in the intermediate division would win due to the field sizes of around 50-60 players with nearly half of these who should have been playing intermediate. We felt the true meaning of a recreational player was to enjoy your experience and compete against players of your skill level instead of intermediate players who were not renewing PDGA memberships so that they could bag and win more prizes.

We believe that the decline in the attendance of the events has been largely due to the number of events doubling in Texas in 2012. This gave players more options and diluted the number of players. For the 2013 season, all four of our Texas PDGA events have either filled in advance or had over 180 players and we are still doing recreational as trophy/player pack only.

Our payouts are some of the best in the business and we have almost zero sponsorship dollars to put towards the events except for the Innova Champion Discs CFR fundraising program and a few minor sponsors here and there. We hosted a very successful Glass Blown Open in 2012 that featured 432 players with a hybrid of trophy only. We handed players a player pack worth approximately $175, sent them off to play three rounds of golf, and then only paid out a small percentage of the field. Most players seemed to appreciate this model. We are doing the same this year and those that place at the top will be rewarded again. This is basically the same model that we put in front of the PDGA board for our 2013 Amateur World Championships bid proposal. The bid was approved and Dynamic Discs and Emporia, Kansas were awarded the Championships with expectations that the amateur tournament model was in need of some adjustments. The PDGA was supportive and encouraging and felt like if this was the year for change, then having Dynamic Discs behind it would hopefully be the best way to bring this to the players.

We can only host a little over 500 players with five courses to use. Steezo mentioned that the Emporia Middle School course should have been looked at and improved on and utilized. This was our full intentions but the PDGA did not feel like the course, even with the proposed improvements, was good enough for a World Championships. The course will still be getting the changes, but at this point it is not scheduled to be used for Worlds.

What should players expect of the 2013 Amateur World Championships? Our goal is always to have players enjoy their experience from the time that they show up until the time that they leave. You will check in at the Granada Theatre which is a block away from the Dynamic Discs shop and pick up your $200+ value players package. From there, you will likely get practiced up on the courses and enjoy the beautiful scenery of the two ball golf facilities that are going to be used for the event. Both courses will allow you to rent a golf cart for your practice rounds so enjoy that experience that few events have the ability to offer. The players party, dinner, FlyMart, poker night, Dynamic Discs shop, clinics, and other activities will keep you busy all week and with everything in Emporia being as little as a ten minute drive, you should never expect travel time to be anything to worry about. At the end of the event, there will be the finals and awards given out to the top finishers. These players will receive a trophy basket, or mini trophy basket, along with additional payout that can be used at the event or at the ease of your computer when back home through our online store that stocks just about everything disc golf.

If you are looking to win or place high in your respective division and make a personal gain by receiving additional payout, you still will! We just don't see the need to pay out 250 of 500 amateur players. This creates mass chaos in most instances while all 250 players are trying to rush and get their payout and get on the road at the same time. We want to give you the best experience up front and for the entire time that you are in Emporia and think that we can do this without paying out half of the field. With many events doing this across the country, it seems to be the model that will be seen in more and more events. If you can't find the competitive nature in playing your best, improving your game, and competing against the top amateurs only to be upset to not receive payout for finishing halfway down in your division, then I recommend not coming to the Amateur World Championships and letting someone else fill your spot who will enjoy the tournament and the experience. We don't feel like there will be any shortage of players wanting to compete and want all 500+ players to come and have the best tournament experience that they will ever have at a disc golf event! We look forward to seeing you in Emporia and promise to put on the best show possible!

Jeremy Rusco
Dynamic Discs

I thought I'd give this a spot of its own in case the other thread keeps rolling.

 

[Royal Hill]

Great idea putting this over here.

I do fully expect that the other thread where this came from WILL keep rolling...

Likely in circles.

For my part, I greatly appreciated reading Jeremy and DD's process at coming to this event model. I more greatly understand the thinking when the process and timeline is presented. Great of the DD team to provide this kind of well constructed statement.

It was beneficial to me to see that this event model was part of their worlds bid, and well thought out to an end that both DD and the PDGA saw as a favorable approach. It gives me, a casual outsider, a peek at process and perhaps more so helps me understand where things may be going.

 

[apparition]

Yeah, it's more important to me to read this statement than the babble in the other thread. Very interesting topic though. I wanna see a poll gauging how people feel about this.

 

[ZAMson]

Good on 'em for posting sense in the face of nonsense

 

[Rob Martin]

I'm not a DD fan boy. They have done things in the past I disagree with.

However, Rusco is freakin' brilliant. Kudos.

I'm now looking forward to Am Worlds more than ever.

 

[tbird888]

Well deserved new thread. I think am events should stop with the extreme player's packs and payouts. It just doesn't seem that people play tourneys to compete anymore.

3P, I think you should add your history of your local club post could do well with its own thread too.

 

[SteezeOG]

Sorry for calling that guy a brat in the other thread but I'm not as reserved enough to say it as well as Jeremy did. I thought I was being mild. Happy to hear about the middle school course. Next worlds in E-town they'll use it.

 

[Stankyjahnke]

When is the am worlds dates?

 

[dobbins66]

Well stated by Jeremy - They seem to have a solid plan in place. Sorry I have to miss this year!

 

[texhop58]

I've played in two dd tourney's this year. I play them for a reason. They do a great job trying to keep their players happy. I have also been working with their chasing chains division to set up a tourney for a new course I have been helping with. Again I chose to use them for a reason. Thy take care of their players and run a good tourney set up. The two I played I this year had 186 and 105. Both were capped out. So event size is great. I wish dd the best of luck and look forward to using them in October for my tourney

 

[smyith]

and the Am Scam takes a whole new meaning. No thanks....all interest lost in this years Worlds.
Just what I want...a players pack with nothing I throw or need instead of getting a disc or two I will actually use.

 

[Stemplejg]

Awesome Letter to set the record straight!

 

[goody]

Good post from Jeremy. Seems like a reasonable format and the player's pack should be pretty cool.

 

[SteezeOG]

and the Am Scam takes a whole new meaning. No thanks....all interest lost in this years Worlds.
Just what I want...a players pack with nothing I throw or need instead of getting a disc or two I will actually use.

Are you being serious? Did you read the statement? It says a large player pack and the value. Can't believe there won't be some world's stamped discs you can collect or sell if you're that worried about money. Winners still get baskets and vouchers along with the competition and extras you would expect. You're honestly saying you are passing on an annual event because you won't get a gift certificate for coming and nothing more? :gross: You'll be missed.

 

[giles]

and the Am Scam takes a whole new meaning. No thanks....all interest lost in this years Worlds.
Just what I want...a players pack with nothing I throw or need instead of getting a disc or two I will actually use.

from the looks of things, you have a better chance of not going home empty handed with this new format...

 

[Apoth]

I wasn't aware of the other thread and, now that I've seen some of the comments here about that thread, I'm scared to go look. Can someone give me the cliffs notes version on what the modified format is?

 

[Casual Squishy]

I wasn't aware of the other thread and, now that I've seen some of the comments here about that thread, I'm scared to go look. Can someone give me the cliffs notes version on what the modified format is?

It was a thread a guy posted about am worlds that got derailed pretty quickly into one of those whole am vs pro, cash vs plastic, definition of the word word is etc.
By about page 4 or 5 it didn't have much to do with this thread
Not sure if the OP ever even posted again on it, and the thread title even turned out to be wrong.

 

[Violets caddy]

It's about damn time they stopped paying out half the field and started awarding people who actually brought their A game. I like it.
The whole point is to prove who the best Ams are and not making people feel special just for showing up, glad someone finally figured that out.

Hope the organizers of pro worlds are paying attention

 

[jenb]

Since I'm mentioned in Jeremy's post, and my response was not posted here, I'd like to quote it below for posterity.

Hi Jeremy. Thanks for joining the discussion. You must know I recognize and value your professionalism, or I wouldn't have asked DD to present my tournament in July. I also recognize you may be right about the proliferation in tournaments having an impact on attendance. After all, with tournaments practically every weekend, we can't play them all. Good luck to you with this event. I hope it is as big a success as you expect.

That said, I don't think the trophy only format for rec has resulted in less perception of a bagging problem at DD tournaments. The people I talk to (who now avoid DD events) all complain about the unrated players throwing one or more advanced rated rounds and running away with the trophies more often than not.

I was curious to see if that was true, so I looked at all of DD's tournaments since January 1 2012, which are supposed to be trophy only in rec. I'm not sure if that's true of the events "presented by" or "sponsored by" DD, but I have included those events in my analysis for now. I excluded the one round challenges from my analysis, because there's a lot of volatility in ratings that could produce a false impression from a single round. I also excluded supertour events, as only PDGA members can play those. What I found was that, out of 26 events, an unrated player took the rec trophy home 11 times. That's not half the time, but it's pretty close (42%).

As for those unrated players throwing advanced rated rounds, I saw five of those winners throw at least one round rated over 935 (i.e., 957, 954, 946, 939, and 939). So I think the perceptions held by the rec rated players who no longer attend DD tournaments are somewhat valid, and there is obviously still a problem that was not solved by making rec trophy only. If anything, I think the perception of the problem is that it is worse, as there can now only be one "winner" in rec, and the players rated below 850 feel like they stand no chance at all.

As I've said before, I think the only way to really deal with the problem is to prevent unrated players from playing ratings protected divisions. TDs have the discretion to force non-PDGA members to play a different division, and I think that's the way to go. Unfortunately, the PDGA prevents TDs from denying entry to rec to new PDGA members who don't yet have a rating. In order to really address the issue effectively, that rule needs to be changed. However, a TD can still drastically reduce the perception of bagging by at least requiring non-PDGA members to play in a non-ratings protected division for which they are otherwise eligible.

 

[Casual Squishy]

Since I'm mentioned in Jeremy's post, and my response was not posted here, I'd like to quote it below for posterity.



That said, I don't think the trophy only format for rec has resulted in less perception of a bagging problem at DD tournaments. The people I talk to (who now avoid DD events) all complain about the unrated players throwing one or more advanced rated rounds and running away with the trophies more often than not.

I was curious to see if that was true, so I looked at all of DD's tournaments since January 1 2012, which are supposed to be trophy only in rec. I'm not sure if that's true of the events "presented by" or "sponsored by" DD, but I have included those events in my analysis for now. I excluded the one round challenges from my analysis, because there's a lot of volatility in ratings that could produce a false impression from a single round. I also excluded supertour events, as only PDGA members can play those. What I found was that, out of 26 events, an unrated player took the rec trophy home 11 times. That's not half the time, but it's pretty close (42%).

As for those unrated players throwing advanced rated rounds, I saw five of those winners throw at least one round rated over 935 (i.e., 957, 954, 946, 939, and 939). So I think the perceptions held by the rec rated players who no longer attend DD tournaments are somewhat valid, and there is obviously still a problem that was not solved by making rec trophy only. If anything, I think the perception of the problem is that it is worse, as there can now only be one "winner" in rec, and the players rated below 850 feel like they stand no chance at all.

As I've said before, I think the only way to really deal with the problem is to prevent unrated players from playing ratings protected divisions. TDs have the discretion to force non-PDGA members to play a different division, and I think that's the way to go. Unfortunately, the PDGA prevents TDs from denying entry to rec to new PDGA members who don't yet have a rating. In order to really address the issue effectively, that rule needs to be changed. However, a TD can still drastically reduce the perception of bagging by at least requiring non-PDGA members to play in a non-ratings protected division for which they are otherwise eligible.

mistake.