F. Howl
* Ace Member *
Triple mandos, tiny island greens with stroke and distance, and par 2s.
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"Fun Factor" in hole design
- Thread starter DavidSauls
- Start date
Vote for two simple, yet fun multi-disc throwing holes.
#2 Timmons (Greenville, SC) - it's essentially a rainbow shot with the putter. Throw it high and straight and let it drop straight down towards the basket. In the summer, you've got the added benefit of three trees and their leaves serving as a backboard.
Old, RIP'ed #11 Hornets Nest (Charlotte) - A big sweeping, hyzer shot for this 199-foot hole. The higher your shot gets, the more it hyzers back to the basket. This was the only hole in town I was averaging under par for a long time.
#2 Timmons (Greenville, SC) - it's essentially a rainbow shot with the putter. Throw it high and straight and let it drop straight down towards the basket. In the summer, you've got the added benefit of three trees and their leaves serving as a backboard.
Old, RIP'ed #11 Hornets Nest (Charlotte) - A big sweeping, hyzer shot for this 199-foot hole. The higher your shot gets, the more it hyzers back to the basket. This was the only hole in town I was averaging under par for a long time.
Easy holes are fun...once.
Bogey really did nail like all the points I would've made. Valley holes, hitting gaps, transitional open-wooded holes, etc. I will say that one thing that really tickles my funny bone are holes with mostly only old growth trees and grass. A hole like this with a very well defined line to weave through mature trees is super satisfying. You have to shape a shot and see how well you executed it the whole way.
Bogey really did nail like all the points I would've made. Valley holes, hitting gaps, transitional open-wooded holes, etc. I will say that one thing that really tickles my funny bone are holes with mostly only old growth trees and grass. A hole like this with a very well defined line to weave through mature trees is super satisfying. You have to shape a shot and see how well you executed it the whole way.
Anfield Addict
Bogey Member
A fun course for me will have a diversity of shots that challenge me to push the boundaries of my comfort zone. It gets old throwing the 'routine hyzer' over and over again. I'm also a fan of course design that utilizes the available natural features to create shot restrictions, designer imposed mandatories I am not a huge fan of. Though I do understand the need for them to keep pedestrians safe and players from throwing into/over areas they shouldn't, and that many designers are also restricted by the terrain and vegetation native to the area. I'm also aware I may be in the minority there.
Some great thoughts and examples here.
One of the things that brought this topic to mind was the time I played a good course---a very good course---with lots of challenge, lots of diversity, some creativity, and nothing you could really fault. And yet, it felt like not quite the sum of its parts; not a lot of holes I'd call fun, not such that I was dying to throw them again. I mean, they were fun, because disc golf is fun, and playing good designs is fun. But not exceptionally so.
The other is a good course with lots of really good holes. But it has a few that, while they can be great fun, and fairly challenging, don't generate as much score separation as others. They're imperfect holes, but I like them anyway. I forgive the course for having a few of them.
Which is what brought me to thinking about the "fun factor", separate from the quality of the holes, or at least the qualities we generally talk about---challenge, demands for different shots, scoring separation, etc.
As for mediocre courses, a few High Fun Factor shots won't save the course, but they at least give something to look forward to when playing it.
One of the things that brought this topic to mind was the time I played a good course---a very good course---with lots of challenge, lots of diversity, some creativity, and nothing you could really fault. And yet, it felt like not quite the sum of its parts; not a lot of holes I'd call fun, not such that I was dying to throw them again. I mean, they were fun, because disc golf is fun, and playing good designs is fun. But not exceptionally so.
The other is a good course with lots of really good holes. But it has a few that, while they can be great fun, and fairly challenging, don't generate as much score separation as others. They're imperfect holes, but I like them anyway. I forgive the course for having a few of them.
Which is what brought me to thinking about the "fun factor", separate from the quality of the holes, or at least the qualities we generally talk about---challenge, demands for different shots, scoring separation, etc.
As for mediocre courses, a few High Fun Factor shots won't save the course, but they at least give something to look forward to when playing it.
Good topic, DS. As a very casual player, I say leave scoring separation to the tournament courses. That's good, and it's also why top level tournaments don't always need to be played on the highest rated or most fun courses. That course you're talking about that's no fun but is challenging with good scoring separation is a course I'll play at least once, or more if it's close, but it's not one I'll frequent.
When I play (again, as a casual player), I'm playing against myself and against the course. To be honest, I don't even usually play against my card mates. I love any course that presents a challenge, requires me to pick a line and hit it, and has a decent amount of diversity of holes. I've only a played a few holes with those "novelty" clown-mouth type shots, and I don't see it as any kind of benefit. I'd much rather play a Branson Trails, Harmony Bends, Selah, Sharktooth Mountain, Coyote Point, https://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3271, Shawshank, Picnic Island, or any number of other courses (some much lower rated) that use natural features to shape lines. For me, the most fun I can have playing disc golf is being in some kind of beautiful natural environment with a varied selection of holes. One pet peeve of mine is a hole where you can go over the top of everything with spike hyzers, overhands, etc. I feel like any course worth it's weight better have TALL trees, though it's forgivable for designers to put it some mandos to force throwers not to go over the top all the time.
Anyways, I have definitely played "nice" courses, some even adequately designed with good tee signs, good navigation, good tees/baskets that just lack a "fun factor" for me. Kind of like you said, you get there and expect it to be amazing, but it's just not quite the sum of its parts. Other courses lack some refinement, but something about the course experience makes me want to keep coming back, either because I know I should score better, or know I can hit that line, or because it's just a really nice place to be outside and throw. This is quite subjective. A lot of the time the "dud courses" seem to be public parks or those made by people who either are just too new or just don't know disc golf. Sometimes it can just be because they put way too much emphasis on the amenities and forgot about the golf.
Again, I appreciate the topic, mainly because I fully support an increase in fun disc golf courses everywhere! I'm no designer, but I'll try every course I get a chance to.
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Have to agree with those mentioning beauty. As I said earlier, fun is about how you feel, and it's hard not to feel great in a scenic setting. Many of the courses I've enjoyed the most have been on wonderfully scenic land.
That said, I took the OP as "What can a designer do to create a fun hole?" assuming they have a given parcel to work with.
How does one go about designing a fun hole?
If working with a flat parcel, I'm an advocate of building up a mound to elevate a basket a few feet, and surrounding it with stones or railroad ties to combat erosion and dress it up a bit. Or doing it on an even larger scale to raise a teepad a few feet. Amazing how different it can feel putting on a basket that's 2' higher, or throwing from a tee that's just 3' above the fairway.
An underappreciated point is just how handsome little touches like that are when reasonably well executed, and how that sort of landscaping makes a course feel special and cared for.
While pleasant aesthetics themselves aren't fun, they enhance the course in a way that makes the experience more enjoyable... which helps create the feel you're looking for.
That said, I took the OP as "What can a designer do to create a fun hole?" assuming they have a given parcel to work with.
How does one go about designing a fun hole?
If working with a flat parcel, I'm an advocate of building up a mound to elevate a basket a few feet, and surrounding it with stones or railroad ties to combat erosion and dress it up a bit. Or doing it on an even larger scale to raise a teepad a few feet. Amazing how different it can feel putting on a basket that's 2' higher, or throwing from a tee that's just 3' above the fairway.
An underappreciated point is just how handsome little touches like that are when reasonably well executed, and how that sort of landscaping makes a course feel special and cared for.
While pleasant aesthetics themselves aren't fun, they enhance the course in a way that makes the experience more enjoyable... which helps create the feel you're looking for.
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ILUVSMGS18
Just Another Disc Hoarder
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I like having options especially those that have a high risk/reward value, but not too many. Some of my favorite holes are #12 and #16 at Hyzer Creek, #18 at Central Park, #1, 2, 18 at a local and unlisted course (#1 is a 151' along a creek to a tightly guarded green, #2 is a 250' water carry that can lead to your drive being 100' from the shore, and #18 is a 200' water carry on what can be a precarious green when the water is high and commonly has a headwind [RIP Konopiste Open CD3]), #13 at Bellamy Park, #3, 6 and 8 at Pleasant Hill DGC, and #7 (was #8) at Cadyville DGC. Most of those holes include either water or significant elevation changes, the remaining holes include either a cool basket position (#6 at Pleasant Hill basket in the trees) or a cool fairway element (#7 at Cadyville with a totem not shown on the course pics, will update those this spring/summer). Most holes that are favorites of mine, are because of the fun factor, but #18 at CPS is because of how I have done on that hole (ace and CTP, plus it makes me feel better about the round no matter how bad I'm doing), plus it has options and the bridge gives some unique character. On a side note, I wish signatures weren't just 4 lines.
Fun IMO comes from all aspects of the course which offer a high replay value regardless of 9 or 27+ holes and p2p vs free. If you want to come back to a course often i would say it offers a good mix of whatever xyz player considers fun.
That's the thing.. Some thing ski hill courses are fun while others prefer golf style or wooded hell. I love them all and can respect a good course but find fun to come anytime I play dg. Otherwise you're doing it wrong!
Hell sometimes I'm in the mood for trolling aces at a local lame 9er which has many fun holes in that regard. If I'm out tossing new distance driver i want some 350+ lines to shape.
That's the thing.. Some thing ski hill courses are fun while others prefer golf style or wooded hell. I love them all and can respect a good course but find fun to come anytime I play dg. Otherwise you're doing it wrong!
Hell sometimes I'm in the mood for trolling aces at a local lame 9er which has many fun holes in that regard. If I'm out tossing new distance driver i want some 350+ lines to shape.
That's my place. Short, mediocre somewhat fun. Really great thread it makes me think about the best places I've played..
I like it up on Cortes Island they throw the coolest Discgolf tournament / party ever. After the tournament they have a dinner and play quarter CTPs with a five minute timer. The shot is a downhill at least 40' drop into a field, super fun times. Those shots are always a crowd pleaser.
I replicated the shot sort of at my place.. Probably 220' downhill at a 45 degree angle, probably 60' drop, wide open field and a burm and road behind. It is the most played hole a lot of people play a ctp when they leave. I tried to take a picture today but I need to put some red on that pin haha.
Another one that has been a classic is the "quarry" hole it plays over an active rock quarry. The pin is up about 8' to base on top of a flat rock wall on the other side of the valley and the teeoff is 25' up. The shot changes depending on where stuff is piled
The rest are mediocre, hanging tonal, one 80' long through a 3' tunnel shot kinda pachinko with the trees, pond shot, nothing as memorable as the other two shots.
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Above post reminded me of a particular fun shot off a hill. On a lot of elevated tees, you're throwing downward, relatively parallel to the slope of the fairway... specifically to avoid fading deep into the woods from higher altitude.
But I've played a few holes where the preferred line off the tee is a long carry with plenty fade at the end, so you throw out, rather than down.
#14 at the RIP'd Kensington Tunnel course was a such a hole. It's a hoot watching discs sail through (or even over) the tops of trees, rather than at trunk or bushy branch level. Really miss that hole.
But I've played a few holes where the preferred line off the tee is a long carry with plenty fade at the end, so you throw out, rather than down.
#14 at the RIP'd Kensington Tunnel course was a such a hole. It's a hoot watching discs sail through (or even over) the tops of trees, rather than at trunk or bushy branch level. Really miss that hole.
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Hole #13 at Southeast Park (Columbia, SC) is a 600' hole that tees off over a grassy area, sloping gently downhill. The fairway narrows to and straddles a valley (high on either side), then the basket is up on the hill on the right, in the woods.
Once, in a tournament, with no other group on our heels, I suggested to my group that we all declare our drives potentially lost, and take provisionals, just so we could throw off the tee again. It wouldn't matter, because of course we'd find our first throws, and we weren't causing a backup. The suggestion, mostly in jest, wasn't adopted.
But that's the sort of thing I think of when I think of a fun hole. One that you're itching to throw multiple times, and will if you can get away with it.
Once, in a tournament, with no other group on our heels, I suggested to my group that we all declare our drives potentially lost, and take provisionals, just so we could throw off the tee again. It wouldn't matter, because of course we'd find our first throws, and we weren't causing a backup. The suggestion, mostly in jest, wasn't adopted.
But that's the sort of thing I think of when I think of a fun hole. One that you're itching to throw multiple times, and will if you can get away with it.
A related but separate view of this that I'm dealing with on one of the courses I'm working on is really cool or neat trees. Either an abnormally big or gnarly tree or just a really neat looking shape. I'll cut down 100 trees to make the fairway, but I'll never cut that one down, even if it screws up the line a little bit.
A lot of people do this with rock formations. Maybe it's not actually a good idea to stick the basket at the edge of a steep and slippery rock, but dammit if it's not cooler perched way out there.
A lot of people do this with rock formations. Maybe it's not actually a good idea to stick the basket at the edge of a steep and slippery rock, but dammit if it's not cooler perched way out there.
CreemCheese
Double Eagle Member
Short but steep was mentioned earlier. Makes me think of this hole down the side of a reservoir.
That doesn't show the elevation well, but it's basically a putt through the tree.
There's some other fun holes on that course too. Rare to have elevation change in this part of the state.
That doesn't show the elevation well, but it's basically a putt through the tree.
There's some other fun holes on that course too. Rare to have elevation change in this part of the state.
There is a course near me that my friends love to play. These are people that top out around 250', most of the holes are around 350'-400' They assume that I have fun since I can birdie most of them. The truth couldn't be further from that, I hate it. All of these holes they consider long and fun are in truth just open and straight without a ton of character. I play to hang out with them and try to get them playing other courses. Fun means variety and challenge along with other things like upkeep, use factor and tee pad quality. It is a package deal with course quality being number 1.
Lewis
* Ace Member *
Water caries with well-conceived "bail out" landing spots.
Flyboy #25: (385 ft)
Big arms get the big reward with a chance at an Ace or Birdie, but even noodle arms can hit the shorter landing spot up on the left, for a low percentage look at a birdie (but technically still there), much more likely par... but always a chance of hearing that sickening "sploosh."
Particularly fun because of the metal sign nailed to the tree just right of the tee that reads:
Oh yes! Half of the holes at Flyboy would be good examples for this thread. :thmbup:
Indeed.
Yeah I find myself making fairways work to fit in any interesting or huge, old trees. But not too close b/c I don't want the eventual DG traffic to kill the tree.
All part of the "fun factor"---at least for some players, and particularly for the designer.
We have a hanging basket. It can't be said to add anything to the ideal scoring spread. It should have a minimal effect on scoring at all---mainly, those too-low approach shots that might have hit the support pole and stopped, but instead keep going. But it inevitably puts a smile on players' faces, the first time they see it. And it makes that hole a little more memorable.
As for trees, we also like bringing interesting trees into play. And have a species hierarchy, where some trees can't be cut, period, some can only be cut if there's no other way to make the hole great, some can be cut as needed, some we're glad to be rid of.
