Getting back into disc golf, would like form critique

[sidewinder22]

Is this something that is good to start narrow and then get wider as you get the feel? I see this advice a lot but lots of pros are in wider stances; maybe because a lot of them do a slow x-step for most shots anyway. In that above video Will is definitely throwing from a stance wider than just outside shoulder width, from a standstill/one step. I'm not Will though.

Look at the photo above with you me and will, your stance is the widest at the setup. Then Will and I stride into wider stance shifted forward off rear foot.

 

[guccimane]

Look at the photo above with you me and will, your stance is the widest at the setup. Then Will and I stride into wider stance shifted forward off rear foot.

Yes I understand this, you said start from a neutral, just outside of shoulder width position, vs a wider stance. I shift into a wider stance, I don't throw from the neutral position, is all I'm saying. That's what you're saying too right?

 

[guccimane]

Part of it is that you are still starting the throw with weight on your back leg, so there's no real weight shift going on, or a soft one at best.

I'm not following. Are you saying throw from a neutral, just outside of shoulder width stance, or start there, then shift to a wider stance?

I understand I'm not shifting my weight. That's why I'm posting here

 

[sidewinder22]

Yes I understand this, you said start from a neutral, just outside of shoulder width position, vs a wider stance. I shift into a wider stance, I don't throw from the neutral position, is all I'm saying. That's what you're saying too right?

Looks like you just pick your front foot up and put it back down without really striding.

 

[guccimane]

Looks like you just pick your front foot up and put it back down without really striding.

sorry I'm not being clear at all with my writing. My fault. Let me start over!

In my most recent video, my starting stance was too wide and not an athletic position. Next time I throw, I should plan to start in a neutral, just outside the shoulder stance, then stride into a wider throwing stance. Correct?

The way I wrote it before made it sound like I was describing that I thought my stance in the most recent video was neutral/fine, which it definitely isn't. I was trying to replicate starting in a position that an x-step would get you in, vs. dynamically getting there through a step.

 

[Frodo]

Do the Elephant Walk.

When I do the elephant walk it's so easy for me to brace into the rearfoot and let everything swing past which makes the front side naturally stride out. What I'm having a hard time is replicating that feeling of loading into the rear side during the x-step since all the movement is forward. Hope that makes sense.

 

[sidewinder22]

When I do the elephant walk it's so easy for me to brace into the rearfoot and let everything swing past which makes the front side naturally stride out. What I'm having a hard time is replicating that feeling of loading into the rear side during the x-step since all the movement is forward. Hope that makes sense.

It is harder to do and feel in x-step, takes practice and balance. Move in slow motion - you have to maintain balance. Swing something heavy, slows down and speeds up parts(rhythm) and helps feel.

Work your way backwards into x-step/hershyzer:


Run/gallop laterally fast and efficient- don't throw - go like 100 yards back and forth.

 

[UhhNegative]

I'm not following. Are you saying throw from a neutral, just outside of shoulder width stance, or start there, then shift to a wider stance?

I understand I'm not shifting my weight. That's why I'm posting here

It depends on what you are going for. If you aren't going to stride your front foot at all, the stance needs to be relatively more narrow throughout the entire movement. If you are going to take a small stride into the plant, then you start with the neutral stance and stride into a wider stance. The key to look for weight shift in your self-analysis will be seeing your rear foot leave the ground/unweight slightly before the plant foot plants. Usually will look like the rear heel moving towards the target, or at least not moving away from the target. When you watch your latest video you will see rear heel moving away from target, indicating a "spin out" or not shifting off the rear side before the swing. There should be a moment where both heels are off the ground and you are effectively "weightless" going into the plant.

 

[guccimane]

It depends on what you are going for. If you aren't going to stride your front foot at all, the stance needs to be relatively more narrow throughout the entire movement. If you are going to take a small stride into the plant, then you start with the neutral stance and stride into a wider stance. The key to look for weight shift in your self-analysis will be seeing your rear foot leave the ground/unweight slightly before the plant foot plants. Usually will look like the rear heel moving towards the target, or at least not moving away from the target. When you watch your latest video you will see rear heel moving away from target, indicating a "spin out" or not shifting off the rear side before the swing. There should be a moment where both heels are off the ground and you are effectively "weightless" going into the plant.

Thanks for clarifying, that's really helpful. I think what you're saying with feeling both heels off the ground is making some other stuff i've been thinking about click. In my previous post with the drives, I was talking about how I was feeling like I was spinning out, but I guess I didn't realize it was starting so soon in the throw. Lots to work on.

 

[guccimane]

Some drives today, focusing on starting in a neutral stance and trying to keep the shoulder position more closed at the hit.

Main notes:

- I'm pulling through from maximum reach back too early; by the time my heel on my pivot foot is planted, i've already almost got my shoulder angle perpendicular to the target. I've had this problem I think in every video I've shared, so this is the next thing I'm going to try and tackle.

- Still "spinning out" a little bit, but I had a couple throws where my shoulders felt more closed and the disc sort of rocketed out. getting the plant foot/reachback timing correct will probably also help with this, because I think that will prevent me from opening up my upper body too soon

- Feeling more in control and balanced, which is what I was focusing on the last couple sessions, so that's nice.

- Need to make sure i'm rotating my femurs/hips in

Most shots were between 300-330 with all discs (except putters which I'm struggling with right now, combo of weird grip issues and where I throw there's always a slight headwind, so I just OAT them right over...). I need to be sure to be getting the nose down and throwing slight hyzer, because I think the 300-310ft long 50ft high noob hyzers would be 350+ shots at the correct angle. Good shots were going 350+, I got a lucky star leopard out to 380, and some eagles and PDs to 360ish. Had a great roc shot that went 340-350. Very inconsistent though, which is the nature of the beast.

Anybody else notice anything?

 

[UhhNegative]

The upper body action looks really good and I think you are getting a lot of distance from that. But still more-or-less spinning in place in terms of the lower body. If you do exactly what you are doing here, but instead of picking the foot up and down in the same place, stride the front foot out like 6-12" from where it started. That will force you to weight shift forward and deweight the rear side. Pretend you are juking someone out or ice skating.

 

[guccimane]

sweet. I had that in my notes that I wrote down for myself to focus on the lead leg more, as I have a tendency to sink/settle into it rather than block off of it. moving it forward a bit and sticking it into the ground like a skater/running back also makes sense to tackle while working on reachback/heel down timing.

I think my throw has always been only upper body. when I was playing and reading about technique online, all that was talked about was beto drills and "hitting it", and I ground that stuff out in the field till my arm fell off.

 

[UhhNegative]

It's going to feel like the swing is super late to you when you are first adjusting, like you feel like you should be swinging earlier, but you just have to trust it.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, you are spinning your hips out before you can "shift from behind" to the front leg. Patience/delay/wait for it.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118948

 

[guccimane]

Yeah, you are spinning your hips out before you can "shift from behind" to the front leg. Patience/delay/wait for it.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118948

For the timing of the shift, does it come at the apex of the reachback? Essentially, should weight be shifted totally to the lead leg, with rear leg deweighted, before the upper body begins pulling the arm through? This is how I've been thinking about shifting from behind, because at apex of reachback the back is fully to the target.

In reality it probably happens more simultaneously, just trying to figure out what my mental picture should be.

Also, I had some throws in my most recent practice session where it felt like I was shifting my weight at a 45 degree angle to the left of the target line, and it felt like it was counterbalancing my arm on the right side of my body (LHBH remember). I'm not sure this is right though, but it got me thinking about weight shift direction. Should the shift feel like it's headed in the direction of the target or is it angled to the target to counterbalance arm weight swinging through? It seems like crushing the can/heel planting is already a directional shift because it happens sorta perpendicular to the target anyway and you have to move toe to heel, but I could be understanding it wrong.

 

[UhhNegative]

For the timing of the shift, does it come at the apex of the reachback? Essentially, should weight be shifted totally to the lead leg, with rear leg deweighted, before the upper body begins pulling the arm through? This is how I've been thinking about shifting from behind, because at apex of reachback the back is fully to the target.

In reality it probably happens more simultaneously, just trying to figure out what my mental picture should be.

Also, I had some throws in my most recent practice session where it felt like I was shifting my weight at a 45 degree angle to the left of the target line, and it felt like it was counterbalancing my arm on the right side of my body (LHBH remember). I'm not sure this is right though, but it got me thinking about weight shift direction. Should the shift feel like it's headed in the direction of the target or is it angled to the target to counterbalance arm weight swinging through? It seems like crushing the can/heel planting is already a directional shift because it happens sorta perpendicular to the target anyway and you have to move toe to heel, but I could be understanding it wrong.

I'll just comment on the timing since the direction of the weight shift is still somewhat of a mystery to me.

You've got it right, the apex of the reachback for most of the top pros is usually like split second before the front heel plants. The rear foot doesn't always necessarily leave the ground, but will definitely have no real weight on it. Certainly both heels should never be down at the same time. In practice, it will probably feel more like you are still turning back as you are planting.

 

[sidewinder22]

The shift creates the timing or sequence/lag to the top of the backswing. The direction can vary and changes - redirects. Elephant walk is perpendicular to target, but also targetward. Gets weird talking or thinking about it. Balance and counter balance.

 

[guccimane]

Here's some drives for today. Took some time off of practicing, so shaking some rust off and trying to re-remember what I'm focusing on.



I'm focused on timing of the heel and the reachback, and trying to throw with a one step vs. both legs planted. in the process i've totally left my weight stuck between the center of my legs. I'm also sinking into the plant leg again instead of juking skating with it. I only filmed the last set of throws, which was dumb, because I instantly noticed the plant leg issue. gotta remember to film and delete every set.

I think my timing with the heel plant and the reachback is a tad improved. one thing I think I might experiment with is instead of trying to "pause" on my reachback and plant my front foot, I'll instead try and have a quicker front foot/pivot foot when starting the throw, and keep the reachback timing the same. Watching the video, I think the slowness is affecting both the early swing forward and the sinking into the pivot leg. I think keeping it stiff and quick will help with timing and shift.

the whole swing seems to be early, and I'm off balance to my left side after most throws, which I think is a result of being too early, and bleeding power off to the left (LHBH remember).

I've got all sorts of grip issues i need to adjust; when I used to play, the disc would rip from my index finger, but now it's ripping from my middle finger (got a blood blister two weeks ago to prove it). On maybe 50% of putter throws, it feels like it's getting in the way and causing that OAT problem i've been having. I think I will try and switch up grip a bit.

need to get some rear angles and remember to bring the tripod. video is at strange angle, tough to tell wha'ts going on.

 

[sidewinder22]

You look so rigid and static and small/collapsed posture and trying to be too careful or perfect in the setup.

Relax, free your mind, feel and let go of your arm and swing fluidly back and forth. Shift on your feet back and forth like getting ready to throw a jab and ready yourself to make a dynamic swing. Open up your front foot 45 degrees in the setup, so that you can turn back further into the backswing. If you start turned back your backswing winding/loading back will be weaker and bring in less rotational momentum, which also weaken the forward swing unwinding/unloading/springing forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWasFdvnGio#t=6m5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu4CzVnITlo#t=5m56s
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134415

 

[guccimane]

thanks. i was for sure thinking about a lot. looking at my drives from 12/10 they look a lot more relaxed (and I had some more successful throws), so i'll try tapping into that more.

I think I had an ah-ha moment after this session back at home where i was hopping from foot to foot, just like Paige Pierce on the gif you posted on the first page. hoping to translate it.

For the front foot, 45 degrees in set up but perpendicular for the target when I plant it right?

I might get some knuckle tattoos that say "relax" to remind myself that my most successful throws have been loose and effortless.