Hardstyle vs Sport swings

[semisensei]

There are two types of kettlebell swings: Hardstyle and Sport. In hardstyle, tension builds throughout the downswing before exploding upwards/outwards. In Sport swings, max tension is at the bottom of the pendulum before dissipating at the tops.

https://youtu.be/1vkR6iOGv2M

Which style do you think is most applicable to disc golf in the backhand drive? Or could both styles be effective?

Which style works best for putts?

 

[Brychanus]

All of them have exercise value.

Usually if I'm looking for DG crossovers I work on swings that best simulate getting pulled taut in the backswing and feel a release point or slash or strike through the target.

 

[semisensei]

All of them have exercise value.

Usually if I'm looking for DG crossovers I work on swings that best simulate getting pulled taut in the backswing and feel a release point or slash or strike through the target.

So more akin to the Hardstyle swing? pulled taught in backswing then smoothly exploding forward in downswing?

Feldberg’s (Swedish style?) swing seems to be more Sport to me in the sense that there seems to be a weightless moment at the top of his backswing. Elephant Walk drill also seems to emphasize this feel.

Golf swings as taught by Dr Kwon and SC (as I understand them) seem to also favor the Sport style swing dynamic: weightless at the top, heavy pump/tension at the bottom.

On the other hand, the “rubber band effect” is mentioned often and swings like Lizotte, Locastro, McMahon, Aderhold come to mind that seem to explode from the top of the backswing.

The reason I pose the question is not necessarily for exercise recommendations but in seeking clarity on swing dynamics and where to focus the “oomph” of the swing.

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't think either really translate to driving as that kettle bell swing is mostly sagittal plane movement and you don't want to thrust the hips/hump the goat.

Hardstyle might translate a little better to straddle putting like KJUSA.

 

[Brychanus]

So more akin to the Hardstyle swing? pulled taught in backswing then smoothly exploding forward in downswing?

FeldbergÂ's (Swedish style?) swing seems to be more Sport to me in the sense that there seems to be a weightless moment at the top of his backswing. Elephant Walk drill also seems to emphasize this feel.

Golf swings as taught by Dr Kwon and SC (as I understand them) seem to also favor the Sport style swing dynamic: weightless at the top, heavy pump/tension at the bottom.

On the other hand, the Â"rubber band effectÂ" is mentioned often and swings like Lizotte, Locastro, McMahon, Aderhold come to mind that seem to explode from the top of the backswing.

The reason I pose the question is not necessarily for exercise recommendations but in seeking clarity on swing dynamics and where to focus the Â"oomphÂ" of the swing.

Agree w/ SW there.

I've learned a lot of kettlebell swings in the past year and accumulated some "dos and don'ts" when it comes to DG, so here are some takeaways. I'm a fan of them for general fitness. I've had weakness in certain areas in my legs and core and kettlebell swings have helped. But you can definitely do more harm than good if you're not careful.


DG crossover cautions:
1. The grip ergonomics are important, and none of them are quite like leveraging out a hammer or Flexbar or similar. I can't overstate how important that is. So I'll say it's really important, and then say the word "important" for a fourth time!

2. The end point or intent of the swing really matters. Holding and swinging is different from swinging to hit and from swinging to throw. Many "hardstyle" swings are closer in intent to, but not quite the same as the athletic DG swing.

3. I believe there's such a thing as swinging too heavy, both from a kinetics and a recovery point of view. You want your body to be flexible, balanced, and agile and feel fresh for DG.


Exercise for DG:
A fit, flexible body matters. Though not a replacement for DG specific moves, I've gotten the most utility out of:

1. In general, swings closer to a transverse plane (but still not quite: swing with some hyzer). See one arm olympic hammer throw.

2. Two-handed kettlebell or medicine ball swings that help make the leg action and bracing clear, like tossing the ball directly into a wall.

3. One-arm kettlebell swings with an overhand grip but on a closer to transverse plane some hyzer swinging forward and back. 10-15 lbs max. Less works great too. Prerequisites: these recently became easier after two-handed swings and some sledgehammer tosses and work on my arm mechanics. They are still not a replacement for swinging and tossing hammers, but can be good for leg & core recruitment and are closer to the DG chain. The swing intent is still more "hardstyle." Remember: it's an exercise, not a drill.

 

[semisensei]

I don't think either really translate to driving as that kettle bell swing is mostly sagittal plane movement and you don't want to thrust the hips/hump the goat.

Hardstyle might translate a little better to straddle putting like KJUSA.

For sure on the sagittal plane part- what I’m mainly wondering about is the movement/acceleration of the kettlebell itself.

In a drive swing, does the disc feel heavy at the peak of the backswing, like in KB hardstyle?
Or does it feel weightless at the top of the backswing, like in sport style?
Or are both styles possible?

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm a little confused, to me peak and top of backswing are the same. I'd say there is an element of weightless/levitation going up to the top and heaviness/tug at the top transitioning forward.

 

[Brychanus]

^This is how I practice the KB swings. You want it to feel pretty similar to a door frame drill shifting forward against the peak of the backswing. KB helps elevate you back & up into the peak, then you should feel like a stretch as you transition forward, nothing yanking or jerking. It should feel like gentle leveraging of that resistance out toward the target in the forward swing & accelerating late. You can add more "oomph" but shouldn't feel clanky or jerking or pain. When you're doing them right you will feel a lot of effortless momentum in the KB. Beware accidental releases if you do anything inside (i.e., why I usually use them as exercises in the gym with an intent to swing but not release).

 

[semisensei]

I'm a little confused, to me peak and top of backswing are the same. I'd say there is an element of weightless/levitation going up to the top and heaviness/tug at the top transitioning forward.

In the hardstyle swing the "peak" of the backswing is actually the kettle bell's lowest point, where the "tug" against the body's posterior chain stops it, and then accelerates it forward.

In the sport style swing, the peak of the backswing is not it's lowest point- the kettle bell floats up and is stopped by the tug of gravity before falling back down of it's own accord, only to be accelerated parametrically by an upwards tug when the KB nears the bottom of its parabola.

From what it sounds like, there is likely a bit of both in a DG backhand: a lateral tug towards target at the top of the backswing, and a falling into parametric acceleration as well.

Sorry to confuse everyone with a weird question haha

I'm trying to wrap my brain around Feldberg's swing.

 

[Sheep]

I'm trying to wrap my brain around Feldberg's swing.

I guarantee you there is more thought into it than you'd ever imagine, but its as absolutely simple as possible.

Feldberg not only being an Old school golfer is going to have weird form, but he's one of the few pro players who've really spent time looking into form.

But he talks about it in one of his older video's. The new age style stuff vs the old school stuff.

But it's pretty much a pendulum style swing that is as simple as possible.