Help me get new hyzer crush drivers

[Brychanus]

Dear DGCR hivemind:

I was going to just go look at flight numbers but want input before I spend a ton of money if I can help it. This is a new "problem" for me.

I am not talking about mild hyzer angles like McBeth. I am talking about GG-level hyzer crushes, but for mortal shots around 400'/~60mph.

Shots that make you say out loud "wow, that guy really likes his hyzer releases."

Nearly unforgiveable amounts of hyzer.

Henna Bloomroos, but hyzer-y-er

Garrett Gurthie saying to Simon "I love you man, but here is even more hyzer."


This sickness. This beauty.

Context:
I usually play in very low-wind conditions. I have beef already if I need it. Assume 5mph or less.

I have one remaining I-blend Pharaoh that does one "trick" for me. It was nearly perfect at "hello." I throw it on a harsh hyzerflip and use the left-to-right turn phase while it's mostly flipping up, and it still has just enough stability left to end where I want it straight-ish ahead of me. I have a lot of experience with it and if I'm throwing well it's in the sweet spot. But I've never found another run quite like it, and it's slowly getting more and more beat.

I prefer grippier plastics, mostly just a handfeel/confidence/ grip thing.

Three Distance Driver slots I want to fill:
1. My "magic" Pharaoh. Unrepetant, shameless lowish line hyzer smashing.
2. Stable turnover - it's touchy, I know, but something that I can hit and it'll stay up and coast right.
3. Spray and pray. Shock and Awe. This is the "Fire and forget" ballistic missile in the bag. You know the disc - the one where it goes farther than any disc has gone before, but it might land on Mars or Venus. OB does not exist to this disc, but if all's fair on the fairway and you need to hustle, this is the disc you pull out. Will either impress your friends or make them laugh at you the second time you pull it out.

 

[jupiterboy]

I'm closer to 50 mph, but I've found the Sol to be to be a good choice for those 200 to 250 controlled turn shots. My Z version has a bit more glide, then I have one in a cheaper ESP for water shots.

A little faster—the Underworld has become a pretty critical disk for me. I have the Tournament plastic, which is very much like star.

I've been throwing Sidewinder for several seasons and like them in all sorts of plastic. G* might be worth a look for you, but I'm leaning on a Champ Glow at the moment that I really love. Sidewinder has a real shape to the flight—likes to wander right but also likes to fight back.

I also picked up a Halo Mamba at a tournament last year and have come to like this disc. IDK what you make out of a very flippy 11 in an overstable plastic, but I get a bit more distance out of this than the Sidewinders with many good straight shots.

The other oddball beginner disc that, to me, seems like a slower Sidewinder is a Star Cheetah. Great woods disk. Nice flight shape, like Sidewinder.

Also, the free disc for Innova today is a Halo Hawkeye. I have a couple Star Hawkeyes and I love them. Laser beam discs.

If I were you I'd pick up that Hawkeye, a Sidewinder, Mamba and maybe a Cheetah if they have. Then pick up an Underworld somewhere else.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

1. Closest thing I have found to that sweet beat in Pharoah off the shelf is the domey Glow Nimitz from Lone Star with only very specific runs of other discs coming close.
2. For the long holding turnover distance driver I really like discing down and using the Hatchet (9 speed) or stable versions of the Heat, they are just effortless distance and turnover goodieness. The Renegade from DD used to fill that 400 foot turnover slot well but it was discontinued and any of the "special" runs recently of them are insta roller flippy.
3. Give the Lat 64 Halo Plastic Bolt a shot. It is super glidy, understable, while still being a big rim 13 speed. At 400ish feet of power this might be a great test the water disc to guage if you need mwar or less flippy goodness.

 

[Brychanus]

Fairways are welcome too, I'm pretty covered there for straight and fading shots, but still don't have the right-turning side of the bag figured out.

Are Heats and Sidewinders as overlapping as the numbers suggest (plastic/run variance there of course etc.)? I've got a few of the former but have not spent much time with the latter. Maybe... the man called @sidewinder22 also could weigh in there lol.

I'm liking all these ideas. I wasn't initially thinking about mids but the Sol looks like a good time on paper.

All the rest of these look like sweet options. I will have to resist the impulse to fill my cart with all of them lmao

I also encounter a nice Shryke once in a while, but have encountered some all the way from Wysocki Destroyer overstability to right-turning. For some reason I don't like the handfeel as much as Pharaohs even though they're pretty close.

 

[jupiterboy]

Heat may be a bit more understable. I think Innova is often a bit more overstable than numbers.

Sol and Underworld are super flippy. You can't get close to flat and expect them not to cut roll. They tolerate no OAT, so they have really helped me polish my release. You have to give them a very deep hyzer and they are great at reinforcing that throw motion.

Sidewinder seems to turn early with a slow, long fade if I front load the grip and cut the spin a little. If I back load and bump the spin up it will wander directly right with a little fade at the end. Just a great disk. Plastic does change the stability, though. Basic Star is good. Glow Champ is more stable w a bit more glide, but it will chip if you hit a tree hard.

Getting a few understable discs has changed my game and greatly improved my throw. I'm much less tempted to throw a sidearm off the tee now. I save that for upshots.

Halo Mamba might be what you want for that 400' distance, though.

I don't think I've thrown an anhyzer in a year and a half.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

Sidewinders vary greatly in out of the box stability, especially in Star. The Champ versions are most consistent but tend to lean towards the stable side of things and take a little longer to beat in. Z plastic Heats are very close to their flight numbers off the shelf and don't take very much time or effort to learn the release angles. I like the hand feel of Sidewinders better, but not the random consistency. Roadrunners fall into the same category as the Shrykes you listed from my experience with them.

The hardest spot to fill in my bag was that controlled straight to late turnover distance driver slot, especially off the shelf, and not working to season a disc into it. I found 9 speed fairways easier to get that flight out of initially, until I was able to beat something in to that slot with that touch more distance the 11 speeds provide.

I did forget to mention the Curl from Lone Star. Little variance in flights based on plastic and PLH but the Bravo runs tend to be more neutral. They bomb and fill that well seasoned wraith slot off the shelf and have a smaller/shallower more comfortable rim feel. These would be slightly less slow speed stable than the Nimitz with a very similar early flight.

 

[jupiterboy]

IDK if the Jennings Sidewinder are still around, but I had a Star that was money—right in the middle. About 171 or 172 is sweet.

 

[sidewinder22]

I throw 50/50 BH/FH, so I don't often carry a high speed turnover disc, but when I do I like the Kastaplast Glow Grym which is probably close to a Katana.

I switch back and forth between a Mongoose, Roadrunner, and Sidewinder for understable fairway although I've found stability can vary quite a bit on all models.

 

[Sewer bill]

I use a dd whatever they call their halo plastic vandal as a fairway slot and esp surges for the unforgivable amount of hyzer flip shot. I have recently started throwing a Pharoah and it's super flippy already brand new it behaves very similarly to a very beat up force but a little bit faster. Maybe try one of the halo blends and beat it in, it will hold that sweet spot longer than the regrind blend.

For me the no ob no obstruction farthest flying disc is the esp flash. They will not behave in any sort of headwind but no wind or tailwind they usually beat all of my other drivers. They need a LOT of width and height though so they're useless for golf lines. I'm still hunting for a modern equal.

 

[Brychanus]

I throw 50/50 BH/FH, so I don't often carry a high speed turnover disc, but when I do I like the Kastaplast Glow Grym which is probably close to a Katana.

I switch back and forth between a Mongoose, Roadrunner, and Sidewinder for understable fairway although I've found stability can vary quite a bit on all models.

Nice, thanks man - my friend has a Grym so I'll borrow that first. All these fairways look appetizing!

I use a dd whatever they call their halo plastic vandal as a fairway slot and esp surges for the unforgivable amount of hyzer flip shot. I have recently started throwing a Pharoah and it's super flippy already brand new it behaves very similarly to a very beat up force but a little bit faster. Maybe try one of the halo blends and beat it in, it will hold that sweet spot longer than the regrind blend.

For me the no ob no obstruction farthest flying disc is the esp flash. They will not behave in any sort of headwind but no wind or tailwind they usually beat all of my other drivers. They need a LOT of width and height though so they're useless for golf lines. I'm still hunting for a modern equal.

What plastic was that Pharaoh? If it is new I might roll the dice on the flippy one and also try something in halo.

How hyzer/fast you throwing the ESP flash? That "personality" sounds like what I'm talking about for the spray and pray. "Useless for golf" and just for fun sometimes.

Sidewinders vary greatly in out of the box stability, especially in Star. The Champ versions are most consistent but tend to lean towards the stable side of things and take a little longer to beat in. Z plastic Heats are very close to their flight numbers off the shelf and don't take very much time or effort to learn the release angles. I like the hand feel of Sidewinders better, but not the random consistency. Roadrunners fall into the same category as the Shrykes you listed from my experience with them.

The hardest spot to fill in my bag was that controlled straight to late turnover distance driver slot, especially off the shelf, and not working to season a disc into it. I found 9 speed fairways easier to get that flight out of initially, until I was able to beat something in to that slot with that touch more distance the 11 speeds provide.

I did forget to mention the Curl from Lone Star. Little variance in flights based on plastic and PLH but the Bravo runs tend to be more neutral. They bomb and fill that well seasoned wraith slot off the shelf and have a smaller/shallower more comfortable rim feel. These would be slightly less slow speed stable than the Nimitz with a very similar early flight.

Yeah I am already better appreciating the pure turnover problem better this week. It seems like in real scenarios I'll want to saw off a bit of potential distance and just use a fairway driver. I have stuff in the 9-10 speed range that has potential for that. I also was finding that 11+ speeds are much harder to dial for pure turning shots in no matter what I was doing with my form. I kind of vaguely understand why that happens aerodynamically now I guess.

Really didn't know anything about Lone Star at all but I love a well-seasoned Wraith slot so that is cool too.

 

[Sewer bill]

What plastic was that Pharaoh? If it is new I might roll the dice on the flippy one and also try something in halo.

How hyzer/fast you throwing the ESP flash? That "personality" sounds like what I'm talking about for the spray and pray. "Useless for golf" and just for fun sometimes.

I don't know what plastic the Pharoah is I think it's the I blend it feels like a softer star plastic. It is heavy though 178g.

I also don't know about hyzer angle or speed when throwing high distance lines with the flash. It personally feels anhyzer to throw at that launch angle
but it comes out of my hand visually on hyzer and hits the apex while still turning. I have thrown them 500+ with no wind measured with a walk wheel, with a tailwind they glide out even longer.

I'll pester sidewinder to let me throw his techdisc to get some better info on speed and angle of the dangle.

 

[Brychanus]

I don't know what plastic the Pharoah is I think it's the I blend it feels like a softer star plastic. It is heavy though 178g.

I also don't know about hyzer angle or speed when throwing high distance lines with the flash. It personally feels anhyzer to throw at that launch angle
but it comes out of my hand visually on hyzer and hits the apex while still turning. I have thrown them 500+ with no wind measured with a walk wheel, with a tailwind they glide out even longer.

I'll pester sidewinder to let me throw his techdisc to get some better info on speed and angle of the dangle.

If you're slinging 500 you're maybe a high 60s/70mph guy. Throwing all those manhole covers as you exit those sewers did you some good, eh?

I-blend might have been what my current plastic is so at my current armspeed I might give the current run a stab. I would be curious about your data!!

 

[Itsnotflipyurjustbad]

3. Spray and pray. Shock and Awe. : Go dig through some used bins and find the gnarliest Pro Destroyer you can still grip without injuring your hand. These were my wide open hole discs, throwing them on near vertical hyzer with plenty of air under them and watch them do a giant lazy full flex. When I was reliably throwing my standard "mellow bomber Destroyer" ~415 on a controlled line, I could easily push these out past 450 (tickling 500 with a tailwind) if distance was the only goal.

Since then I injured/rehabbed my shoulder and I'm trying to stick with Wraiths for distance. A 159g poptop Star Wraith fills that thrashed Pro Destroyer spot. Probably not quite the distance potential, but the glide is there if I hit it right and it is certainly not as squirrelly. If you've played Waterworks, I put it deep left in the road on hole 14 in a slight headwind. I hit it just right and it kicked into glide gear and just refused to give up.

 

[TiltedFlipCurves]

Well of course I don't throw all that far but I have a Rollo-level flippy DX Boss that's cool for fieldwork and nothing else...

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

From the dark rim side... the wave 11 5 -2 2 is probably too short for you, 400' people find them touchy, but it does fun long things, the vanish might be entertaining 11 5 -3 2, pretty good hyzer flipper.. in a weird way its more reliable because i expect more flip up. The secret weapon open field disc is my light 155g fission octane, it's a somewhat forgiving ultra long distance driver at 300 ish. Fights wind well enough and can do some wide S wandering I think it's distance potential is right up there with the wave in terms of "the most you can get out of a throw" but much more likely to fade back. I have no experience with the stuff you throw haha so i dont know how it relates.

Surprised to hear the flash mentioned...

 

[Brychanus]

From the dark rim side... the wave 11 5 -2 2 is probably too short for you, 400' people find them touchy, but it does fun long things, the vanish might be entertaining 11 5 -3 2, pretty good hyzer flipper.. in a weird way its more reliable because i expect more flip up. The secret weapon open field disc is my light 155g fission octane, it's a somewhat forgiving ultra long distance driver at 300 ish. Fights wind well enough and can do some wide S wandering I think it's distance potential is right up there with the wave in terms of "the most you can get out of a throw" but much more likely to fade back. I have no experience with the stuff you throw haha so i dont know how it relates.

Surprised to hear the flash mentioned...

I don't mind a lot of turn phase personally. I actually also just enjoy watching hyzerflip flight shapes so there's a kind of primal level of pleasure for me.

I understand why it can also be a liability, but I have always been much more comfortable throwing for power at 20 (or more) degrees hyzer. It has been true no matter what my form looks like, which has always been interesting to me and why I'm so interested in pro hyzer power shots. Sidewinder's preference to train mechanics on hyzer is very pragmatic from that perspective. Gravity hammer!

On the other hand, I know there are often practical advantages to throwing nearer to flat with more overstability and less turn for reliability reasons. Golf requires versatility. However, it's so much harder on my body personally when throwing for power that I'm kind of trying to figure out what my ~80% power shot game looks like on hyzer. I think in the short run it is harder to learn which is why so many people tell new players to throw "flat," but in the long run it's a power/body preservation strategy for me. I'm practicing for my "old man" game starting right now.

I have a (slightly younger and less busted) friend who is trying to get me to throw 'flatter" rather than always leaning on hyzer and trying to get too cute with flip-turn-fade dynamics on every shot when sometimes a flatter and more OS shot will do. He has a point* - I don't disagree with him and am starting to practice it more at maybe 60% finesse shots. It's helping me score already. I still tend hyzer so they're usually just shallow hyzerflips.

But when I want my 80-85% drives, I'm going hyzer if I can, and if I have all the air space I want, then these are the discs I'm after here. I suddenly realized the pure joy of a low-effort open-air 40-45 degree hyzer crush so I'm willing to explore that a bit lol

First, got a couple of Pharaohs in different weights on the way. Once I see what they cover I'll keep it going here. Excited!


*I don't like to gatekeep anything but just something I worry about as a friend... that same friend is doing a field session with a Techdisc today with a player 13 years his junior. After having one go 365ft yesterday, my friend will be throwing his full bag of Destroyers at 50-55 mph on near-flat (really usually slightly hyzer or slightly anhyzer) angles. With the amount he plays I worry about him sometimes as will soon enter his late 30s. The younger (22 y/o) player is very quick and has good balance. He throws about 60mph using a collapsing from shoulder, and spins vertically when he throws. He was already talking to me about hip and knee aches last time we played 1 on 1. I worry about that too even though it's not really my business...

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

@Brychanus well the wave is one of the best offerings from MVP with magic disc distance.. usually the guys at 350+ bitch about it being twitchy but it adds 30' for a 300'-350' thrower. More power you have the more finesse you need.. I got one of Simons commemorative DGLO fission waves from the shot where he blew over the basket OB for the easy win. That was 400'+

 

[Brychanus]

@Brychanus well the wave is one of the best offerings from MVP with magic disc distance.. usually the guys at 350+ bitch about it being twitchy but it adds 30' for a 300'-350' thrower. More power you have the more finesse you need.. I got one of Simons commemorative DGLO fission waves from the shot where he blew over the basket OB for the easy win. That was 400'+

I briefly had a used bin Star Archon that was well seasoned and liked using it right around that 350 range. I could throw it pretty comfortably on my hyzer angle and it was nice for finesse-y placement shots at low effort. I was just starting to really appreciate it when I threw it into a water hazard on hole 18 at one of my favorite courses on my birthday lmao. So I'm back in the market for 11 spd too. Giving wave a look now.

 

[itlnstln]

I primarily throw DM. Here's what I have in those slots (and others) in my bag:

All around distance driver: S-Line DD3 (a bit more under stable than their numbers might suggest)
Power distance: Halo, bottom-stamped Cloudbreaker (more over stable than their numbers might suggest, even though they're the same as the DD3)
Wind fighter: S-Line PD2 (probably will have to wait until 4/24 to get one of these. A BLAST to throw on a steep anhyzer as well. SURPRISINGLY long)
Roller/long turnovers: S-Line DD

 

[Brychanus]

I primarily throw DM. Here's what I have in those slots (and others) in my bag:

All around distance driver: S-Line DD3 (a bit more under stable than their numbers might suggest)
Power distance: Halo, bottom-stamped Cloudbreaker (more over stable than their numbers might suggest, even though they're the same as the DD3)
Wind fighter: S-Line PD2 (probably will have to wait until 4/24 to get one of these. A BLAST to throw on a steep anhyzer as well. SURPRISINGLY long)
Roller/long turnovers: S-Line DD

S-line DD has "spray and pray" potential written all over it"