How the highest level of courses have changed

[powerofhope]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to brush up a bit on my disc golf history.

This post only pertains to the highest level of the game for both MPO and FPO. Courses that hold worlds, elite series, etc. This is not concerning your casual disc golf courses.

With courses growing seemingly longer and longer each year, as we move away from densely wooded tracks in favor of those allowing for more spectators, I want to look back on how these highest levels of courses have evolved since the the early days of disc golf.

From what I understand, most of the courses played all the way until the 2000s were mostly par3 heavy, technical courses, correct? Could someone that has seen firsthand how courses have transitioned over the previous decades offer some insight? I really appreciate any response.

 

[biscoe]

Pars above 3 began to proliferate some time in the 90's I am pretty sure. The first such holes I heard of was when friends returned from playing the Houck courses in Port Arthur, TX at Worlds or possibly at Laurel Springs in NC. There were a few courses in the Mid-Atlantic with some par 4/5 holes by the mid to late 90's. I think the first actual par 4 holes in Virginia may have been some of mine which would have started in 97 or after. I have no real frame of reference before 94 though.

 

[Monocacy]

Pars above 3 began to proliferate some time in the 90's

Patapsco Valley dates to 1995 and I think it had long holes even back in the day. Not sure, though, I did not start playing regularly until some years afterwards.

 

[biscoe]

Patapsco Valley dates to 1995 and I think it had long holes even back in the day. Not sure, though, I did not start playing regularly until some years afterwards.

I know Tinicum, The Woodshed, and Seneca pre-existed Patapsco and had holes I would call greater than par 3.

 

[Monocacy]

I know Tinicum, The Woodshed, and Seneca pre-existed Patapsco and had holes I would call greater than par 3.

Makes sense. I played the 18-hole Seneca layout a few times, but at that point anything over 200' might as well have been par 4 for me.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Here's a map with hole lengths of my first course design at North Valley in 1989 where I got onsite design advice from Steady Ed when he visited after Pro Worlds in Iowa. This became a top 25 public course (per Steady Ed) with dual tees, alternate pin placements and a few Championship temp tees. The White Pars shown were based on the original "Steady Ed" pars (Par 3<200', Par 4=200'-300', Par 5>300'). However, the Red & Championship Pars (not shown) were set more like current Blue (Advanced) level pars with a few legit par 4s in the mix.

The Nasty Nine would hold its own with most 4100' 9-hole layouts today. I developed the Barber Pole layouts to balance out course lengths for 2-round events where players played odd numbered holes from the short tees and evens from long tees in Round 1 and did the opposite in Round 2. Pros in those days were fine playing short tees unlike today where they typically reject playing from any shorter tees if longer ones available.

I may have been the first designer to use colors for identifying tee set skill levels in this and future designs instead of the traditional Men/Women, Pro/Am or Advanced/Recreational labels although I started with Red longer and White shorter which were swapped when John Houck and I developed broader color skill level guidelines based on data from the emerging Player & Course Rating system around 2000.

 

[curt]

I'll preface this by saying I've never been involved with the highest level and start near the end of the par 3 era. There's a nuance I want to mention though.

Everything being a par 3 didn't mean there weren't long holes. It was more just understood that everything was par. There were times I remember coming to a tee and the whole joking about getting a par on a 800' hole. We were all thrilled to get the bogey. Another example: there's a local course that played par 54 10 years ago, but I think is par 58 today, without any major design changes.

 

[powerofhope]

Here's a map with hole lengths of my first course design at North Valley in 1989 where I got onsite design advice from Steady Ed when he visited after Pro Worlds in Iowa. This became a top 25 public course (per Steady Ed) with dual tees, alternate pin placements and a few Championship temp tees. The White Pars shown were based on the original "Steady Ed" pars (Par 3<200', Par 4=200'-300', Par 5>300'). However, the Red & Championship Pars (not shown) were set more like current Blue (Advanced) level pars with a few legit par 4s in the mix.

The Nasty Nine would hold its own with most 4100' 9-hole layouts today. I developed the Barber Pole layouts to balance out course lengths for 2-round events where players played odd numbered holes from the short tees and evens from long tees in Round 1 and did the opposite in Round 2. Pros in those days were fine playing short tees unlike today where they typically reject playing from any shorter tees if longer ones available.

I may have been the first designer to use colors for identifying tee set skill levels in this and future designs instead of the traditional Men/Women, Pro/Am or Advanced/Recreational labels although I started with Red longer and White shorter which were swapped when John Houck and I developed broader color skill level guidelines based on data from the emerging Player & Course Rating system around 2000.

Thank you so much for the response, Chuck. This is incredibly insightful. Appreciate everything you've done for our game.

4100' is no joke for a 9-hole.

I wonder how things would have evolved if not for the color-identification of tee skill levels.

Was there any point in time where the "Steady Ed" par system was considered the standard?

Thank you all again for your responses. Compared to most in this thread, I'm very new to the game, but I really like the topic of course design and how it's evolved. What's a disc without a place to throw it?

 

[DavidSauls]

Since the question was directed at the top level, it might be helpful if someone has a list of courses used in Pro Worlds over the years, to see the longer courses started to come into play. Perhaps alongside the change from playing 2 rounds per day at Worlds, on courses short enough to do so, to 1 round per day on longer courses.

For my own experience, I started playing in the mid-90s; at the time, within 200 miles of me, the courses were mostly par-3s with an occasional par-4. Though there were probably only a dozen courses in that daytrip range. I went on a couple of cross-country trips in 1996 and 1998, and the courses I played were pretty much the same.

By the early 2000s, Winthrop Gold had debuted, there was a 10,000-foot private course an hour from me, and my town had a new course with some par-4s and -5s.