How to revitalize a disc club.. or new ideas for a stagnant disc league

[ThrowaEnvy]

Club stagnation seems to be a real problem. Sometimes the people who are running it get tired or too busy to keep the club running the way it should and it can be hard to get them to share control or bring in new ideas. "Why would we change its the way we've always done it" . In many cases it's a few awesome and dedicated people that started it but it's their club but not a democracy.

I've heard it on here a few times, I've got a few friends across the country having the same problems. One club hasn't run a tournament or FR discs in over 5yrs and it was a very strong club for the previous 20yrs.

Has anyone been able to revitalize their club? Was it easier just to start a second club? Any suggestions for running or establishing a club so this doesn't happen? Maybe some sort of election charter kind of deal?

 

[Cgkdisc]

I think the need or reason for clubs to thrive in many market areas has passed. At one time, club volunteers were needed to organize/run events/leagues, provide discs/eqpt for sale, communicate with local players/members and provide justification/labor/funding for park departments to install courses. Those key functions in many areas have largely been taken over by commercial interests primarily driven and supported by the development of the internet, websites, social media, and online sales.

 

[ray1970]

I have a non disc golf club where the board of directors was aging and they were all out of touch with newer trends and the evolving wishes of their members. They were definitely in that "this is what we do because this is what we've always done" mentality and refused to make progress or evolve. Even though the board members were elected annually, it took quite a while to finally get some younger, more in-touch with the times people put on the board.

I guess I'd recommend starting up a newer club where the directors are voted on every year. If the current leaders aren't doing a good job of appeasing the members then the members can vote them out and elect people who will do a better job.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

I think the need or reason for clubs to thrive in many market areas has passed. At one time, club volunteers were needed to organize/run events/leagues, provide discs/eqpt for sale, communicate with local players/members and provide justification/labor/funding for park departments to install courses. Those key functions in many areas have largely been taken over by commercial interests primarily driven and supported by the development of the internet, websites, social media, and online sales.

Maybe where you are at, but our club has a backlog of projects that need to be done, as do neighboring clubs. We also do many events which would not ever be held by commercial enterprises. If commercial interests have taken over, then the clubs failed in their mission, in my opinion.

Or are you saying that for you personally, commercial interest have taken over?

 

[itsRudy]

Has anyone been able to revitalize their club? Was it easier just to start a second club? Any suggestions for running or establishing a club so this doesn't happen? Maybe some sort of election charter kind of deal?

Do you guys have a Facebook page? I guess that's the first thing to get up and running.

Something where you can post chatter and get in touch with the community but also weekly/monthly events.

 

[ru4por]

Club stagnation seems to be a real problem. Sometimes the people who are running it get tired or too busy to keep the club running the way it should and it can be hard to get them to share control or bring in new ideas. "Why would we change its the way we've always done it" . In many cases it's a few awesome and dedicated people that started it but it's their club but not a democracy.

I've heard it on here a few times, I've got a few friends across the country having the same problems. One club hasn't run a tournament or FR discs in over 5yrs and it was a very strong club for the previous 20yrs.

Has anyone been able to revitalize their club? Was it easier just to start a second club? Any suggestions for running or establishing a club so this doesn't happen? Maybe some sort of election charter kind of deal?

I am active in a club. The club is over 30 years old and runs 5-10 tournaments a year and 4-6 leagues a season. It is a lot of work. I also play quite a few tournaments, both sanctioned and unsanctioned. It is rare to not have someone on my card, wanting to discuss my clubs activities, decisions and operations. They are generally quite sincere, though their opinions and personal agendas, vary considerably. The one common factor is none are available to actually help, volunteer, work, attend meetings or assist in actual club operations, in any way. I have found that the success and workings of an effective club, comes down to resources. Boots on the ground, if you will. NOTHING get accomplished by suggestions. I am sure this is not your angle, but it is what I see, all the time. It is VERY difficult to get people involved, in any capacity. I can see club members, the ones doing all the work, becoming jaded at new offers of help. I would encourage you to stay at it. Keep attending meetings, leagues or whatever functions they are holding. Talk to them, show interest by action and follow through.

 

[ru4por]

I think the need or reason for clubs to thrive in many market areas has passed. At one time, club volunteers were needed to organize/run events/leagues, provide discs/eqpt for sale, communicate with local players/members and provide justification/labor/funding for park departments to install courses. Those key functions in many areas have largely been taken over by commercial interests primarily driven and supported by the development of the internet, websites, social media, and online sales.

I don't agree that this is true of all areas. I think you are correct, this is where we are heading. I don't think it is a good thing. Businesses, obviously have a different agenda than non profit clubs of local players. Not a bad thing, but monopoly, without those club options, IMO, is a bad thing.

We currently have a business venture getting into running tournaments. They are a solid group, do give back to the disc golf community and seem to be sincere and genuine. They are now offering some PRO/AM events, with 75 bucks as a flat AM entry. They advertise a player pack return of 50 dollars retail. No transparent detail where the extra money goes. They run decent events, but I fear the loss of clubs, eliminates the options. If I am unhappy with a low player pack return, I simply take my tournament budget elsewhere. I think the elsewhere options begin to disappear, with the club retreat. While, I often see a couple discs donated from this for profit venture, at our local charity events, while I see a pot of donated chili at state meetings, I don't see course maintenance days, I don't see tee sign donations, I don't see any league involvement. Maybe this is still down the road, maybe more organizations are to come, maybe there is some hybrid of club/venture that is to be seen. This is all still the future here.

I don't want my reply to be read as my opinion on player packs or TD's making money. It is neither.

 

[BillFleming]

There's a club that I know of where they had elections every year. The same people kept getting elected because no one else wanted to do anything....they just wanted to participate. Then it eventually became just the President....none of the other positions got filled. In this case, it is still an awesome club as the president really enjoys disc golf and runs the club like he would want it run if he was only a member.

The big issue is finding people who have the time and desire to 'run things'. That's rare.

The clubs out here do run tournaments and members frequently help set up and take down....but, rarely do members help during the tournament (spotting, etc) because they are playing in the tournament.

 

[biscoe]

IMO it is important to have a clearly delineated structure and for the people in charge to stick to it. If you say you are going to have quarterly meetings then have quarterly meetings even if only 3 people show up. Have events that combine fun and utility instead of just a workday or just a tournament. Run weekly events whether they be leagues or doubles or whatever. Communicate with your local players through more than one medium- lots of them are new to the game and seeking structure and likely don't know the club exists.

While disc golf in general got a big boost out of the pandemic I think it has proven to be a detriment to local clubs. Zoom meetings are helpful in some ways but lack the "team buliding" aspects of in person meetings imo (this could just be me- I freaking HATE Zoom meetings).

IMO it is more difficult to maintain momentum through changes in leadership than it is to start a club to begin with. Continuity is a key. People in charge need to cultivate the next generation of leadership rather than doing everything themselves. "The Board does everything" is a one way ticket to burnt out Board members even if it is easier a lot of the time.

Every club is going to be a little different just as every person will be. Most of the time a club's success/failure is based simply on the personalities of a few key folks.

 

[jupiterboy]

I am active in a club. The club is over 30 years old and runs 5-10 tournaments a year and 4-6 leagues a season. It is a lot of work. I also play quite a few tournaments, both sanctioned and unsanctioned. It is rare to not have someone on my card, wanting to discuss my clubs activities, decisions and operations. They are generally quite sincere, though their opinions and personal agendas, vary considerably. The one common factor is none are available to actually help, volunteer, work, attend meetings or assist in actual club operations, in any way. I have found that the success and workings of an effective club, comes down to resources. Boots on the ground, if you will. NOTHING get accomplished by suggestions. I am sure this is not your angle, but it is what I see, all the time. It is VERY difficult to get people involved, in any capacity. I can see club members, the ones doing all the work, becoming jaded at new offers of help. I would encourage you to stay at it. Keep attending meetings, leagues or whatever functions they are holding. Talk to them, show interest by action and follow through.

From an outside perspective, I find that most attempts to volunteer go sideways because the structure of the organization is dysfunctional. This isn't just disc golf, but I've volunteered all my life. I now have an expectation that I'm going to show up, do whatever is asked, and come to the decision that I'm wasting my time. I always start with the idea that this time might be different.

I've interacted with two clubs in the area and both have been problematic for different reasons, but both reasons have to do with the organizers being much more concerned with the internal power dynamics at the top of the group than getting a good result.

My advise in regards to these situations is first, try and be objective and progressive. If something doesn't make sense and everyone knows it, change it. Second, if you have a volunteer that has expertise, defer to their experience.

One of the worst scenarios you can find yourself in is when the decision maker is isolated by confidants who all have their own agenda. To the volunteer, this often means you end up working towards a general result as directed, then find out that's not what you were supposed to be doing at all because there is no clarity in intent. The fact that someone shows up to volunteer should never be taken as an indication that this individual has time to burn.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Maybe where you are at, but our club has a backlog of projects that need to be done, as do neighboring clubs. We also do many events which would not ever be held by commercial enterprises. If commercial interests have taken over, then the clubs failed in their mission, in my opinion.

Or are you saying that for you personally, commercial interest have taken over?

You are basically confirming what I indicated. Clubs with volunteers are needed to get things done in environments where commercial interests haven't yet filled those needs or are unlikely to fulfill them until they become financially sustainable in that area. Certain traditional events like overalls, night golf, team, club qualifiers or other funky formats might not continue without club volunteers unless various commercial interests commit to maintain some of those tradition(s).

One important factor regarding courses is park department funding. In Minnesota, park departments are relatively well-funded, so clubs haven't been needed in the more populous areas to get courses approved, installed or upgraded (although finding available and suitable property has become the challenge). In many states and regions, budgets are tighter where courses are less likely to go in without significant effort from clubs or well-organized groups of volunteers.

Once certain traditional club functions are being handled by commercial interests, the volunteers and especially the next generation of potential volunteers may evaluate the situation and think, "why should I do for free what others are doing for income?" There's an additional philosophical conflict that arises, "Should clubs be happy they've fulfilled their mission in their region once commercial interests have become successful doing what the clubs have done?" or "Should clubs fight to maintain control of their traditional activities to crush or out compete any budding commercial entities?"

 

[ru4por]

From an outside perspective, I find that most attempts to volunteer go sideways because the structure of the organization is dysfunctional. This isn't just disc golf, but I've volunteered all my life. I now have an expectation that I'm going to show up, do whatever is asked, and come to the decision that I'm wasting my time. I always start with the idea that this time might be different.

I've interacted with two clubs in the area and both have been problematic for different reasons, but both reasons have to do with the organizers being much more concerned with the internal power dynamics at the top of the group than getting a good result.

My advise in regards to these situations is first, try and be objective and progressive. If something doesn't make sense and everyone knows it, change it. Second, if you have a volunteer that has expertise, defer to their experience.

One of the worst scenarios you can find yourself in is when the decision maker is isolated by confidants who all have their own agenda. To the volunteer, this often means you end up working towards a general result as directed, then find out that's not what you were supposed to be doing at all because there is no clarity in intent. The fact that someone shows up to volunteer should never be taken as an indication that this individual has time to burn.

Terrific post. I certainly agree. It takes a lot of work to build and maintain a club structure. A set of bylaws, elected positions, meetings with a purpose and structure. A clear mission and goal.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Concise answer: a club's mission should be doing useful things for the sport not being done and may never be done by commercial interests in your area.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Hey thanks for the responses and the discussions I'm at work and I will have to get back to you folks later.

For the record though our club is doing all right but the principal members are aging, we do not have elections or what not. I'm happy enough with it but I have heard some grumblings from different members and see an increasing amount of non-participation compared to a decade ago.

I tried to get them to give me money at one point for the three cans of raid I used to kill some hornets nests but that ended up being a donation to the club haha

There's not enough people or enough money for it to be a viable commercial Venture for anyone. it is a labor of love we're a small ragtag Bunch that does all of our own Course Maintenance and improvements on a shoestring budget. Admittedly I also haven't had any time to be very involved the last 7 or 10 years either I barely have enough time to play league one time in every four if I'm lucky.

I was talking to my buddy Jeff Malton a week ago and he was saying they haven't run a tournament for 5 years and one of the principal operators of the club is just very busy. No fundraising discs, no merch. He was in the middle of fundraising to try and run a Junior's tournament this year.. And then we got to talking and he mentioned a couple of other clubs that have had similar problems. Unfortunately a lack of enthusiasm can be contagious.

 

[ru4por]

Concise answer: a club's mission should be doing useful things for the sport not being done and may never be done by commercial interests in your area.

I agree that this seems to be the direction. Again, I have reservations. Leaving non profitable, labor intensive, volunteer necessary responsibilities are not prime club membership favorites. As a club, we still need to make enough money to pay for the services we provide to our club membership. Certainly a changing landscape.

My fear is that DGLO is a harbinger of things to come. High profile, high profit, tapping into the local volunteer base. Providing nothing but clean up for the local disc golf community.

 

[biscoe]

I agree that this seems to be the direction. Again, I have reservations. Leaving non profitable, labor intensive, volunteer necessary responsibilities are not prime club membership favorites. As a club, we still need to make enough money to pay for the services we provide to our club membership. Certainly a changing landscape.

My fear is that DGLO is a harbinger of things to come. High profile, high profit, tapping into the local volunteer base. Providing nothing but clean up for the local disc golf community.

Does A3 (I think that's your club, forgive me if not) have any sort of agreement with Heinold on event prep or does he deal exclusively with the locality? If not they should negotiate. He is making money.

 

[R-Ogre]

These are the same problems every volunteer based organization has faced for a long time. If you find a magic solution that doesn't involve hanging the capitalist class that is stealing the fruits of our labor at a greater rate every year then please share it.

 

[ru4por]

Does A3 (I think that's your club, forgive me if not) have any sort of agreement with Heinold on event prep or does he deal exclusively with the locality? If not they should negotiate. He is making money.

Correct club. We purposefully have not had any connection with DGLO, or Nate. We have a couple board members and a slew of members that volunteer. They do anything from course prep/set, spotting, parking, crowd control, UDisc, caddy.... We are one of the only pay membership clubs around. Our leagues are exclusive to members and we strive to provide membership privileges. I am not sure we could even leverage that to provide staff....hell, we have a hard time fielding tournament support staff, for our events

DGLO makes exclusive use to any and all volunteers they can muster. Each year there seems to be a late call to action for tournament help. This is via the Michigan Disc Golf Organization (MDGO). They seem to be the only "club" associated with the Ledgestone enterprise here. I am actively interested in the MDGO activity and keep tabs of what they are doing. But, that is a loose definition of a club, mostly consisting of our state coordinator. I don't think there is any compensation for this help. Perhaps free spectator entry?

Course prep in the last few years is one of my big issues. They do go directly to the park system to greenlight significant course changes. Large brush, tree, water clearing to really change the character of holes, at times. While I am not going to say these changes are outlandish, it is done outside the auspices of the clubs, that spend a lot of time on the upkeep and design integrity of the tracks.

There is indeed money available to, perhaps get in bed with the Ledgestone enterprise, but I don't think the general feeling (voting numbers on the A3 board) is interest in, what most would see a compromise of our principles. We continue to do OK. After a couple lean years with COVID, things are much better here, especially in terms of Discraft continuing to see positives, in what our club does.

 

[biscoe]

Correct club. We purposefully have not had any connection with DGLO, or Nate. We have a couple board members and a slew of members that volunteer. They do anything from course prep/set, spotting, parking, crowd control, UDisc, caddy.... We are one of the only pay membership clubs around. Our leagues are exclusive to members and we strive to provide membership privileges. I am not sure we could even leverage that to provide staff....hell, we have a hard time fielding tournament support staff, for our events

DGLO makes exclusive use to any and all volunteers they can muster. Each year there seems to be a late call to action for tournament help. This is via the Michigan Disc Golf Organization (MDGO). They seem to be the only "club" associated with the Ledgestone enterprise here. I am actively interested in the MDGO activity and keep tabs of what they are doing. But, that is a loose definition of a club, mostly consisting of our state coordinator. I don't think there is any compensation for this help. Perhaps free spectator entry?

Course prep in the last few years is one of my big issues. They do go directly to the park system to greenlight significant course changes. Large brush, tree, water clearing to really change the character of holes, at times. While I am not going to say these changes are outlandish, it is done outside the auspices of the clubs, that spend a lot of time on the upkeep and design integrity of the tracks.

There is indeed money available to, perhaps get in bed with the Ledgestone enterprise, but I don't think the general feeling (voting numbers on the A3 board) is interest in, what most would see a compromise of our principles. We continue to do OK. After a couple lean years with COVID, things are much better here, especially in terms of Discraft continuing to see positives, in what our club does.

Was DGLO at some point an A3 event? If so how did the transition to Heinold occur? I know the Worlds bid for 2024 here in VA was done with basically no input from the local Bedford DG community- it was Paul and Heinold and likely the parks department.

Interesting that there are almost no pay for membership clubs up there. Here pretty much every locality has one- I think I have already joined 6 this year.

 

[ru4por]

Was DGLO at some point an A3 event? If so how did the transition to Heinold occur? I know the Worlds bid for 2024 here in VA was done with basically no input from the local Bedford DG community- it was Paul and Heinold and likely the parks department.

Interesting that there are almost no pay for membership clubs up there. Here pretty much every locality has one- I think I have already joined 6 this year.

DGLO has been an A3 event, many moons ago....long before my interest in any clubs. The first year that DGPT took over the event, i think the MDGO was running the PRO and AM sides before that. You may remember the TD supposedly went boating, while McBeth had to help put OB down, on the course...or so the story goes. That first year, the AM side was still run by the MDGO. We discussed making a pitch for the AM side of the tournament. It was decided that it was outside our intended "jurisdiction" (Ann Arbor Area) and we could not likely run it alone. It would have to have been a couple clubs, which is a very feasible option. We have several terrific clubs here and work together very well. DGPT had to have gone directly to the park system, I would have to believe there was assistance from Discraft. You know, I would see a lot more postive in the DGPT event, if the disc community saw some return and the local clubs had some oversight input, for the courses we maintain. The only return is SIGNIFICANT upgrades to Toboggan, which is open for public play for two months. It is rumored that the money came from Discraft, not DGPT. I don't begrudge DGPT, or for profit tournament ventures, but I am not going to support it, without return to the community.

We do have some clubs that essentially run one league. I suppose I have paid for one time memberships, to play the league. Even then, most are an optional membership, to gain access to more payouts, CTP's, ace pools. I generally do join, more for support and marketing for my club. Interestingly, this year, we have voted to give A3 board members 40 bucks each, to spend on CTP's, doughnuts, hole sponsorship... at tournaments we play in. Just bring the receipts in for reimbursement. Only requirement is ensure we get some advertising or mention out of it.