I think Val got burned.

[DoWork]

The rules against consuming alcohol are definitely what's stopping beer companies from sponsoring PDGA. NFL, nba, mlb, nhl, nascar and pga all have rules against drinking while playing, and look at how none of them have beer sponsors.

Right? As a manager, beer sponsors are the first thing we go for in an event. Thankfully our F&B side has a ton of clout w the breweries and they are waiting in line to sponsor our events. Also concessions is HUGE money- some of the best margins anywhere in an operation. We're a tiny place too, how nobody is on those big money sponsors at the PDGA level is beyond my logic. They're just leaving money out there and that's not smart.

 

[Grippenripp]

Doesn't the rule say the TD has discretion but in a B tier and up it's an automatic DQ?

 

[paulw]

This is the song that never ends. It just goes on and on my friends .....

 

[trifocal]

I heard something about a caddy carrying a beer at a pro event in California. Sheesh. Beer is the typical form of payment to caddies here in Wisconsin.

 

[Halcón]

This is the song that never ends. It just goes on and on my friends .....

Ugh, now this song is in my head. I should take my nice back.

 

[lyleoross]

This thread has gone on for some time and I wanted to add a general comment. Neither Val nor her mom needs defenders in any way. Their character speaks on its own. I don't care if one or the other was caught chugging from a keg. One doesn't have to go anywhere beyond Val's general demeanor to know she is a great human being and a great rep for our sport. As for her mom, I don't have to look any farther than Avery and Val. Both are fierce competitors and yet are very warm and human. Having coached and dealt with many kids, I can unequivocally say, making a good human being, little alone a pair like these two is hard work. It is minute to minute, hour to hour and so on. Clearly, Val's mother is a good parent and a good human being. No matter what happened here, she and Val get a huge chunk of I don't really care what happened, you are on my good people list.

 

[wolfmandragon]

This is clearly wrong, even though I agree with your interpretation of the word may. As this thread has shown, some people read it some way, and some read it the other. The wording should be more precise. If the intent is to give the TD discretion (honestly, I'm not even sure that's the actual intent), then it should read something like, the TD is permitted to disqualify the player, based upon their discretion.

No, the word 'may' has a very specific meaning. It doesn't matter that many MAY get the meaning wrong.

 

[dorseymatt]

No, the word 'may' has a very specific meaning. It doesn't matter that many MAY get the meaning wrong.

Of course it matters. I mean, assuming you want the rule to be followed. It would cost nothing to add a few extra words in there to clarify it for people. Apparently half the people in this thread miss the relevance of "may." So yeah, I'd say it matters.

 

[SonicGuy]

Of course it matters. I mean, assuming you want the rule to be followed. It would cost nothing to add a few extra words in there to clarify it for people. Apparently half the people in this thread miss the relevance of "may." So yeah, I'd say it matters.

I mean the majority of people in the world dont understand English so I suppose they are in the same boat as that half of this thread that you reference.

 

[lyleoross]

I mean the majority of people in the world dont understand English so I suppose they are in the same boat as that half of this thread that you reference.

Μπορεί κάποιος να μεταφράσει αυτό στα ελληνικά για μένα;

 

[Noill]

I can, but later...

 

[SD86]

I heard something about a caddy carrying a beer at a pro event in California. Sheesh. Beer is the typical form of payment to caddies here in Wisconsin.

Just pay them after the event, not during it. :thmbup:

 

[deyo7]

Μπορεί κάποιος να μεταφράσει αυτό στα ελληνικά για μένα;

I can only translate Koine Greek, and I'm out of practice at that. . .

 

[BuiltTooLong]

If the PDGA intended to say that players are subject to the same penalty as their caddies, they could have easily done so and with less verbiage in the rulebook. Because they did not, they have left it open to interpretation by design, imo.

I missed Dustin Keegan's observations of the Saturday round. He speaks a little bit about the Val situation, but more revealing to me were his comments regarding the unprofessional manner in which the FPO field was treated by the event staff.

Here is his comment for anyone interested:

Spoiler

Hi everyone, thanks for being so patient and peaceful in all your responses, lol. I might make you all wait longer next time
My post yesterday didn't really have anything to do with Val being disqualified, even tho I disagree with the outcome. A courtesy violation/meltdown (which I witnessed), receives a warning and greatly affects the rest of the tourney for many other ladies. Yet, a hall-of-famer (and mom) caddying for 4 holes with an empty beer can in a koozie gets said player immediately DQ'd. Just doesn't add up to me. Val and Sharon are heroes of mine and represent how I feel like humans should act and live in this world. Kudos to the way you both reacted to the outcome. Everyone should learn a thing or two from these great women.
I'm just disappointed in how the FPO division is being treated at some of the larger events that I have been too this year. I play MPO, so when I get to watch golf at these events, I watch the ladies. It just seems wrong that they pay pretty much the same amount of money and don't get even close as much respect from the event. Saturday at De La was hard for me to watch. The spotters left by the time the ladies got to the holes that really needed them, the water was empty on the ENTIRE course by the time the ladies were halfway through the round, Innova was tearing down banners while the lead card of women had 4-5 holes left, the staff was nowhere to be seen when they finished the round. This was what I witnessed in just 7 holes of following. Ask the ladies, I'm sure that list is a little longer than just that.
I called out the PDGA because they are our governing body and attach their name to this event. They talk about growing the game and all of that, but they are really only growing the men's side of the game. For the women to have no live scoring the final round, except for the lead card, and for them to not have their names called out on the loudspeaker before teeing off like the entire men's division is just not acceptable in my opinion. It really doesn't take that much more effort to just make sure everyone gets the same experience.
I love disc golf and I will always cherish what it has brought to my life. I just have higher standards and hopes for our sport. I apologize to anyone who may have felt disrespected by my post. If you know me, you know I never wish anything negative to anyone. I just wish we can all coexist in a beautiful disc golf world where everyone loves and supports each other. When we all come together is when we will truly grow the sport!
Peace & Love

While on the hand treating Val so harshly and on the other treating the FPO as an afterthought, the PDGA and event organizers look heavy handed and hypocritical, at least to me.

When I first read this from Dustin, I was impressed by his candid post. However, if you look in the comments of his post, the TD of the tournament came in and absolutely crushed every single complaint DK made basically.

If Dustin had issues with the Master's Cup he should voice his concerns to the TD directly, in private. Blasting someone days after the tournament on social media isn't fair or beneficial to the tournament in any way, yet Dustin seemed to get several pats on the back for it.

 

[JTacoma03]

Outside of Val's statement, I've seen no evidence that suggests the beer can was empty.

I'd be beyond floored if a player was DQed for their caddy carrying an empty beer can for 4 holes. Floored. Resign from the disciplinary committee level floored.

As much as I'd hate to see it (sincerely), you need to turn in your resignation if you want to stick to your word.

The can was empty. The PDGA did not thoroughly investigate. They heard a complaint and ran with it to the TD. She did not possess alcohol, she possessed an empty can.

This case has been full of misinformation, or lack of information. As an example, even in this thread it has been suggested that it is a Founders All Day IPA she was carrying. That's not a beer can in the freeze frame, that's a green koozie with a heart design on it. It's impossible to see the actual can to determine if it even was a beer. There is no way to conclusively tell if that is a beer or a soda can in the first place just by looking.

 

[_MTL_]

Time will tell.

 

[Future_Primitive]

Outside of Val's statement, I've seen no evidence that suggests the beer can was empty.

I'd be beyond floored if a player was DQed for their caddy carrying an empty beer can for 4 holes. Floored. Resign from the disciplinary committee level floored.

As much as I'd hate to see it (sincerely), you need to turn in your resignation if you want to stick to your word.

The can was empty. The PDGA did not thoroughly investigate. They heard a complaint and ran with it to the TD. She did not possess alcohol, she possessed an empty can.

Given his track record here (MTL Boycotts DGCR) and his lack of testicular fortitude we all know he is not a man of his word and will simply weasel out of it like MTL is prone to do. All talk and no action from MTL just like normal.

 

[DiscFifty]

The can was empty.

So then is it your opinion she broke the law by drinking in the park and by the time she was asked to caddy, she had finished the beer? Serious question btw.

 

[teemkey]

So then is it your opinion she broke the law by drinking in the park and by the time she was asked to caddy, she had finished the beer? Serious question btw.

Assuming the can was empty, and it once contained beer:

The big question is whether a player is responsible for their caddie's behavior *before* the person is designated a caddie;

if not, then is the PDGA is advocating a person should toss the empty can on the ground rather than carry it to a trash can if they are designated a caddie.

I'd like to know the PDGA's position on the following scenario.

Mom: "Val, you look tired, want me to carry your bag the last four holes?"
Val: "OK, but you have to drop the beer can."
Mom (dropping can): "OK."
Val: :Mom is my caddie."

 

[lyleoross]

Given his track record here (MTL Boycotts DGCR) and his lack of testicular fortitude we all know he is not a man of his word and will simply weasel out of it like MTL is prone to do. All talk and no action from MTL just like normal.

Okay, have to ask, what's the difference between testicular fortitude and regular fortitude? And is there ovary fortitude? I'm betting OF kicks butt!

Back to drinking and playing.