Mental Competition

[BogeyNoMore]

Errant post deleted.

 

[elmexdela]

It's called gamesmanship.

gamespersonship

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Of all the pros I have watched on tour Ken Climo was mental dominate over all others and that included the crowd. His walk, his energy, and his demeanor controlled everything and everyone. He knew he was King Dick and he used it to his advantage... he was fun to watch.

Indeed. I'll never ever forget one instance, I think in the 1999 DGLO. He and Ron Russell were tied going into the last hole on the Final 9 they put on for spectators. It's a flex shot hole, left to right first over a bridge on a creek that runs parallel to the hole, then right to left for the second half. Woods long left in front of the tee if you miss the first turn of the flex shot, woods along the entire creek instead of the bridge, and woods long of the basket. (It's the final hole of Hudson Mills Monster. I haven't been there in a good 10 years so I don't know if it's still the same).

Russell was first and the drive slipped out of his hand, landing in the woods straight ahead instead of making the anny over the bridge.

Everybody there could see the look on Climo's face. He knew this was his opportunity. He knew he was going to pipe the throw and we knew he was going to pipe the throw. And he did perfectly. He was like a shark detecting blood in the water.

I've got it on tape somewhere. One of these days I'm going to get this stuff up and on YouTube.

 

[Armus Patheticus]

what is an example of sportsmanlike mental games in disc golf?

I'm not sure. That's why I'm asking these questions.

I find that varying my own style of play and apparent personality seems to impact the choices and moods of competitors. Some players, usually hyper-competitive types, seem to thrive in a grim, somber mood, which it is my joy to disrupt by being extremely casual and joyful and lighthearted. An unhesitating layup on a very "gettable" but dangerous hole can do interesting things if you are first on the tee. Silence is a tactic. Laughter is a tactic. Manipulating rules is a tactic (To do this it is important to know the rules. Appearing to break them is a very effective and passive way to unravel a sticklish opponent) Feigning a handicap is a tactic. Playing with a single disc is a tactic. Telling stories is a tactic. There are more.

I don't know if these things are sportsmanlike. I do know that my conscience does not allow me to treat others rudely and I do not. I'm a kind and friendly feller who sometimes gets bored with the routine of tournaments. Since I move around a lot and never play the same events over again, I can entertain myself by approaching each round or event with whatever persona and playing style I wish.

 

[wolfhaley]

gamespersonship

This is offensive to me. I don't identify as a "person".

 

[da Crippler]

what is an example of sportsmanlike mental games in disc golf?

There are none. Attempting to gain an advantage by getting in someones' head is by definition unsportsmanlike. I love it when someone tries it on me during a tournament. It tells me that he's afraid, insecure about his skill level. It boosts my confidence to think that he's scared enough to do stuff like that to gain an advantage on me, and it's at that moment that I realize I'm already inside his head without even trying. Spending too much effort trying to affect someone else's game also takes away from yours. Projecting confidence in all circumstances is probably the only mental game you need.

 

[puck'n'disc5]

gamespersonship

Touche :doh:

 

[puck'n'disc5]

This is offensive to me. I don't identify as a "person".

No this individual gets it!

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I'm still of the mindset from long ago that this is a happy hippie sport with specialized, holy Frisbees. Negativity of any sort is beneath us. We're different than the other projectile sports, and that's why we continue to grow at the astronomical rate we have been consistently growing. So long as no obvious jerks are nearby, I'm rooting for everybody to do as well as they can, even in tournaments, and any gathering on the course is a holy experience of like-minded positivity and fun.

This doesn't mean performance takes a back seat. I believe our scores are as sacred as the Discs themselves, as is the whole experience.

Even our PDGA numbers are sacred and special. I always look for addresses that have my PDGA number or my friends' PDGA numbers when I'm gazing out the passenger window of a vehicle. I got excited one day when the serial number of a vinyl record matched my buddy's number. It was a Pearl Bailey album.

Ultimately, I believe all of this rubs off on everybody on the tee, up the fairway, and around the basket, and scores tend to be lower as a result. Plus the sport grows (as it consistently and positively has for decade after decade) and we get more courses and more Discs.

My role in a tournament is to do as well as I can numerically AND for camaraderie, and where I end up on the leader board is where I end up.

Friendly banter (like saying "nice up!" on a putt that's too short to razz a friend you know well) while playing casually falls into the "camaraderie" aspect and is perfectly fine.

So that's my take. Mind games of negativity can take place in the other sports that are based in the culture of the brutish industrial revolution. We're different and far superior.

And yes, I always capitalize "Disc" and "Disc Golf" because of its prominent place in my life. I'm not a religious person until I pull into the parking lot of a Disc Golf course, or even if I'm discussing Disc Golf out in the regular world. I suppose this makes me a Frisbeetarian.

 

[Armus Patheticus]

There are none. Attempting to gain an advantage by getting in someones' head is by definition unsportsmanlike. I love it when someone tries it on me during a tournament. It tells me that he's afraid, insecure about his skill level. It boosts my confidence to think that he's scared enough to do stuff like that to gain an advantage on me, and it's at that moment that I realize I'm already inside his head without even trying. Spending too much effort trying to affect someone else's game also takes away from yours. Projecting confidence in all circumstances is probably the only mental game you need.

Well, I've never been afraid of anything on a disc golf course. But I invite my opponents inside my head from the outset. Tournament frisbee is for me a human experiment that has nothing to do with winning or losing and barely anything to do with throwing discs. Spending effort on trying to understand someone else"s mind is interesting. Trying to win a slow-motion game is not. Projecting confidence? I'm confident that Math will have its way with me. Meanwhile I like to look across the yard into the neighbor's windows.

The consensus seems to be that even among very competitive players, intentionally manipulating opponents mentally is unsportsmanlike, unnecessary, impossible, overlooked, or some combination. This may be true. If so, it may be that disc golf has fewer truly competitive participants than it appears, which is nice.

 

[robdeforge]

The consensus seems to be that even among very competitive players, intentionally manipulating opponents mentally is unsportsmanlike, unnecessary, impossible, overlooked, or some combination. This may be true. If so, it may be that disc golf has fewer truly competitive participants than it appears, which is nice.

Not only is it the consensus, it's the rules (as I cited before). I think McBeth is the perfect example of somebody that is highly competitive while exhibiting great sportsmanship.

 

[EarthRocker]

I like to ask a very innocent question, sometimes. It's never about gamesperson/animalship - it's about breaking the ice.

"So. Do you inhale or exhale during your backswing?"

This creates all kinds of interesting activity in any group. Try it sometime!

To answer Mr. Patheticus in my own way, my competitiveness is directly, and just about only, related to my effectiveness as a flyer of Frisbees. And only as I compare myself to my last great throw.

In other words, I am also a kind and easygoing so-and-so to everyone I'm playing with. But I may be seething a bit on the inside for missing my line on this or that throw. Being somehow actively competitive against others in this game seems like a waste of energy. Most courses are tough enough to require my full focus without adding in That Guy's choice of music or conversation subjects...

(But I will admit that there are about 4 people I've found in 25+ years of playing with whom I really don't want to hang. Ever. Basically, if I don't wanna play golf with you, it follows that I don't want you at my dinner table. And vice versa.)

 

[Armus Patheticus]

Not only is it the consensus, it's the rules (as I cited before). I think McBeth is the perfect example of somebody that is highly competitive while exhibiting great sportsmanship.

Your earlier citation contained a vague ideal, not a rule. A rule forbidding mind games is unenforceable and thus nonexistent. It appears that the biggest obstacle to a mental aspect of disc golf competition is the nature of the game. Baseball, as earlier mentioned, is a fine example of a game that can involve endless mental battles; trickery, intimidation, misdirection, strategy, reading of opponents and so on, all while maintaining complete courtesy and sportsmanship. As some one else noted, disc golf ain't that kind of game, which is true and good, but does not definitively rule out any sort of mannerly psychological battle.

The first time I saw Paul Mcbeth he was putting before an event in Florida. I watched him closely for a minute and I believe he got some competitive surge out of the feel of several pairs of eyes on him. A great putter he was. But something about his pastel clothes and his jewelry and kiddie harstyle and California skin seemed absurd in a classless wasteland, and his relentless chucking of toy after toy into the basket from the peaks of ruthless dominance while surrounded by dumbfounded and worshipful goons twice his size was more than I could contain. So a brief burst of laughter escaped and The Man, after a momentary glance at my mirth, missed two in a row...

 

[Armus Patheticus]

I like to ask a very innocent question, sometimes. It's never about gamesperson/animalship - it's about breaking the ice.

"So. Do you inhale or exhale during your backswing?"

This creates all kinds of interesting activity in any group. Try it sometime!

To answer Mr. Patheticus in my own way, my competitiveness is directly, and just about only, related to my effectiveness as a flyer of Frisbees. And only as I compare myself to my last great throw.

In other words, I am also a kind and easygoing so-and-so to everyone I'm playing with. But I may be seething a bit on the inside for missing my line on this or that throw. Being somehow actively competitive against others in this game seems like a waste of energy. Most courses are tough enough to require my full focus without adding in That Guy's choice of music or conversation subjects...

(But I will admit that there are about 4 people I've found in 25+ years of playing with whom I really don't want to hang. Ever. Basically, if I don't wanna play golf with you, it follows that I don't want you at my dinner table. And vice versa.)

It is interesting that I'm probably even less competitive than yourself (I neither seethe nor attempt to focus (which is probably an unconscious means of competition with myself, as it seems that focusing does my score more harm than good)) and yet sometimes attempt to engage in active meddling with others. Perhaps this simply means I'm a jackass. I don't want to win and I sure don't want the other guy to suffer, I just want to watch what happens.

 

[wolfhaley]

It is interesting that I'm probably even less competitive than yourself (I neither seethe nor attempt to focus (which is probably an unconscious means of competition with myself, as it seems that focusing does my score more harm than good)) and yet sometimes attempt to engage in active meddling with others. Perhaps this simply means I'm a jackass. I don't want to win and I sure don't want the other guy to suffer, I just want to watch what happens.

I'm not a psychologist or anything but you may need to seek help from a professional for your mental issues. Or maybe you are just a jackass (your words). You come across as sling bladey to me though. You're unique, that's for sure.

 

[da Crippler]

Meanwhile I like to look across the yard into the neighbor's windows.

I'm not a psychologist or anything but you may need to seek help from a professional for your mental issues.

ROFLMAO

 

[numbernine]

I find when I play with my friends for casual rounds (I am better than them, I have been playing for a lot longer) I dont focus as much as I could and dont play as well...which is fine.

As soon as we make a bet or put something on it, I focus and they cant beat me...like not even close.

But then I end getting up by a bunch and I revert back to not focusing again. Its not fun for anyone when I beat them by a lot.

But when we are screwing around and drinking one of them will beat me maybe half or a third of the time. I flub a few putts and one of them has a good round and they beat me. I'm good with it. It keeps them coming back.

This legitimately makes me feel better.
I thought my stupid brain was broken or something.
When I play tournaments, I am a pretty good player (940 rated. I have some 995 rated rounds in there.)
But when I play casual, I might as well be playing with my off hand , blindfolded.

I practice, great.
I stand out in the field and throw at a target 100 times, I should go on tour.
Me and my girlfriend go out and just throw a few holes? You would think that I had just come out of a coma and was relearning how to throw things.

 

[Armus Patheticus]

I'm not a psychologist or anything but you may need to seek help from a professional for your mental issues. Or maybe you are just a jackass (your words). You come across as sling bladey to me though. You're unique, that's for sure.

I usually ignore lazy comments like this. In an effort to understand your motives for responding though... What are the signs of my mental issues and what indication exists that "help" with them might improve my life? I don't know enough about entertainment culture to definitely deny your evaluation, but I sense that it is off. As far as occurs to me this morning, some combination of Harold and Maude might come closer to being accurate. I don't know a lot of films, so if that's the only language you speak you'll likely never be understood.

In a society that claims an allegiance to freedom, people are more stifled than ever before. Having more information available, they are more ignorant than ever before. Having more tools available, they are more useless than ever before. Having more available ways to communicate, they know one another and care about one another less than ever before. Evangelists for tolerance, they are more hateful than ever before. If I want to step outside this wheel of hypocrisy, ignore its whirring, and deal directly with my ground and fellow man in love and curiosity and yearning toward whatever fundament I can reach, I accept a degree of apparent oddness as a fair price.

 

[Hampstead]

The self important verbosity is more than I could contain. So a brief burst of laughter escaped and I left the thread.

 

[da Crippler]

The self important verbosity is more than I could contain. So a brief burst of laughter escaped and I left the thread.

I think I'll stick around. I have a morbid fascination with basket cases.opcorn: