Metal Training Discs... a literal "HeavyDisc"

[RocHucker]

It is often said on here that you need to trick your body into throwing the disc as if it is heavy. People even advocate throwing hammers or medicine balls in order to feel how your body leverages against a heavier weight. Has anyone ever tried training with an actual disc made of metal? Do folks think that this would provide any advantage over just throwing a hammer?

I ask because, with online machine shops these days, it would be pretty easy to make this happen. I just 3D modeled an approximation of my Destroyer, and if I could find enough interested people on here to split a "bulk" order of 10 or 20, then we could all have our own metal disc for as low as $50.

20 aluminum discs, each weighing 383 grams, would come out to ~$50 each (with tax and shipping to my house).
10 of those same discs would come out to ~80$ each.

20 stainless steel discs, each weighing 1137 grams, would come out to ~90$ each.
10 of those same discs would come out to ~140$ each.

I'm in the suburbs north of Philadelphia (18966). If you're nearby (or willing to pay for shipping from my area) and might be interested in splitting an order for something like this, then let me know. The higher the quantity, the lower the price per item, so if there's a large number of interested people then it could get pretty cheap. If it might be a significant help in my form development, then I could see myself going in for something like this if price can be kept below $100.

Those of you who have benefited from throwing hammers: do you think a literal "heavy disc" would be a useful training aid? What would be an ideal weight? Weights could be varied from the above stated weights by changing the thickness of the flight plate.

 

[Salto]

https://youtu.be/Ju0L5iWejLk

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[Salto]

Those of you who have benefited from throwing hammers: do you think a literal "heavy disc" would be a useful training aid? What would be an ideal weight? Weights could be varied from the above stated weights by changing the thickness of the flight plate.

I did benefit a lot from swinging 1-2 kg kettlebells and threw hammers a few times. The weights helped a lot with figuring out the lower body.
For the upper body I made some progress by figuring out how my arm pronates/supinates throughout the swing. I figured this out with a disc or empty handed.
A year ago I experimented by taping some weights under the rim to add about 30 grams. It didn't help, even hurt myself. Maybe it was because I was still doing a lot wrong back then, but I wouldn't expect too much. I would be careful as I think this may cause injuries.

 

[RocHucker]

I did benefit a lot from swinging 1-2 kg kettlebells and threw hammers a few times. The weights helped a lot with figuring out the lower body.
For the upper body I made some progress by figuring out how my arm pronates/supinates throughout the swing. I figured this out with a disc or empty handed.
A year ago I experimented by taping some weights under the rim to add about 30 grams. It didn't help, even hurt myself. Maybe it was because I was still doing a lot wrong back then, but I wouldn't expect too much. I would be careful as I think this may cause injuries.

Thanks for your input. And that video of Ezra is crazy!

To clarify, as my original post seems ambiguous, I would not be advocating throwing the metal disc full power repeatedly as some sort of "weight training" way of strengthening throwing muscles (does sound like a recipe for injury). I'd moreso be interested in using the heavy disc in more controlled swing motions purely for the purpose of finding the correct feeling of the throw, and then executing that feeling with normal discs. I'm having trouble replicating a disc golf like motion with a hammer, so was hoping a metal disc might help. But if the point of the hammer throw is mostly independent from arm action (i.e. focused on lower body) then I can see how a hammer *should* be a sufficient tool.

 

[Salto]

But if the point of the hammer throw is mostly independent from arm action (i.e. focused on lower body) then I can see how a hammer *should* be a sufficient tool.

I think the hammer should be useful for the arm. I just spent more time with the kettlebell focusing on my lower body. Throwing the hammer pointed out some flaws with my upper body from videoing. Which I fixed without using the hammer. In hindsight I see that I was making the same mistakes with the hammer in the upper body and arm that I was doing with the disc. Perhaps it's my own stubbornness of not keeping at it with the hammer, but eventually I figured it out with a disc.

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[smoothplayer]

I've just fan gripped a 2 1/2 pound iron weight in the past to work on lower body feeling. They can be had free if you already have one or pretty cheap. Around 5 bucks.

 

[seedlings]

2.5# steel plate weights can work too. I've thrown lots of those in the back yard.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I feel like you would injure yourself if you really tried to chuck these. Gateway was making "Training Wizards" that weighted nearly 300 grams, but they were for putting only, throwing them is highly discouraged.

 

[seedlings]

I feel like you would injure yourself if you really tried to chuck these. Gateway was making "Training Wizards" that weighted nearly 300 grams, but they were for putting only, throwing them is highly discouraged.

Overexertion with bad form, yes! Moderation with good form, nope. If something hurts, you're doing it wrong, kinda like swinging the heavy hammer.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

It is often said on here that you need to trick your body into throwing the disc as if it is heavy.

People use a lot of analogies to explain their approach to throwing a disc. I have found some to be harmful because they can encourage what looks like the proper form but encourage muscle engagement that can be as benign as simply not helping the throw to as bad as leading to shoulder problems.

One of the ones that can be very problematic is pull-starting a lawnmower. While it may mimic the correct arm movement, it also requires the engagement of arm and shoulder musculature at the wrong time.

While throwing a somewhat heavier disc might be helpful, I'd worry that throwing a much heavier disc might also encourage muscle engagement that wouldn't be appropriate for accelerating a legal disc. And while "feeling" the effort against the disc might also be useful, percieved effort can be a very misleading indicator of proper form. Indeed, tying to muscle through a throw, while having a very high perceived effort, can slow down the forearm and limit throws. After all, that is what beginners perceive when they are "strongarming" their throws.

 

[TiltedFlipCurves]

The "secret technique": Throw this 11" pizza pan!

https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/st...-pizza-pan-in-black/5225159?keyword=pizza-pan

Wonder what it weighs and if it flies...may find out!

 

[Salto]

People use a lot of analogies to explain their approach to throwing a disc. I have found some to be harmful because they can encourage what looks like the proper form but encourage muscle engagement that can be as benign as simply not helping the throw to as bad as leading to shoulder problems.



One of the ones that can be very problematic is pull-starting a lawnmower. While it may mimic the correct arm movement, it also requires the engagement of arm and shoulder musculature at the wrong time.



While throwing a somewhat heavier disc might be helpful, I'd worry that throwing a much heavier disc might also encourage muscle engagement that wouldn't be appropriate for accelerating a legal disc. And while "feeling" the effort against the disc might also be useful, percieved effort can be a very misleading indicator of proper form. Indeed, tying to muscle through a throw, while having a very high perceived effort, can slow down the forearm and limit throws. After all, that is what beginners perceive when they are "strongarming" their throws.

The idea behind starting a lawnmower or trying to throw something heavy is the opposite of what you're saying here. For example you mention that starting the lawnmower requires engaging the arm/shoulder and musclature. However, it is more efficient to start a lawnmower by using your weight and not muscling it.

Muscling the arm and shoulder is much more likely to happen with lighter weight objects. Because our brain thinks that for lightweight object like a disc, everything can be done with the arm. So we need to overcome that.

 

[Brychanus]

People use a lot of analogies to explain their approach to throwing a disc. I have found some to be harmful because they can encourage what looks like the proper form but encourage muscle engagement that can be as benign as simply not helping the throw to as bad as leading to shoulder problems.

One of the ones that can be very problematic is pull-starting a lawnmower. While it may mimic the correct arm movement, it also requires the engagement of arm and shoulder musculature at the wrong time.

While throwing a somewhat heavier disc might be helpful, I'd worry that throwing a much heavier disc might also encourage muscle engagement that wouldn't be appropriate for accelerating a legal disc. And while "feeling" the effort against the disc might also be useful, percieved effort can be a very misleading indicator of proper form. Indeed, tying to muscle through a throw, while having a very high perceived effort, can slow down the forearm and limit throws. After all, that is what beginners perceive when they are "strongarming" their throws.

I'm w/ you on this. I do a lot of DG swing drills with light weights and kettlebell exercises at the gym. Adding too much weight can backfire due to safety/balance issues (you are mostly balancing and counterbalancing just with your body in DG since the disc is so light; with a heavier weight you have to commensurately balance and counterbalance a bit differently even if the postures and sequence are similar).

Doing hammer swings is good since they can be no more than a few pounds and help you get the mechanics. I like to use 10lbs or less for weight swing/kettlebell drills unless I'm focused more on strength training.

I think a slightly heavier disc to throw could maybe help with throw training/getting the "heavy disc" sensation ingrained. You can also use other tricks like adding more heave into the backswing, swinging up and down on a vertical plane, etc. as loopghost and sidewinder like to show. Remember the trick of holding the disc vertically to get wind resistance in practice swings, or stack a couple discs together to get 300g+, which can make a big difference in the weight sensation.

Also agree that it's possible to get to a pretty low-effort feeling swing that still has some fundamental issues.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

The idea behind starting a lawnmower or trying to throw something heavy is the opposite of what you're saying here. For example you mention that starting the lawnmower requires engaging the arm/shoulder and musclature. However, it is more efficient to start a lawnmower by using your weight and not muscling it.

The problem with starting a lawnmower is that the acceleration of the flywheel of the lawnmower is front-loaded. All the muscle exertion is at the beginning of the arm movement, the very beginning. Once the arm extends, the person pulling the cord is doing much less acceleration of the heavy flywheel.

Using a heavy weight will tend to do the same thing. That is, it will take much more perceived effort to get it moving which will encourage shoulder and arm involvement that will have to be disengaged for the whip to occur. That whip, at the end of the throw, is where most of the acceleration happens when throwing a regular disc. Both the lawnmower and very heavy disc will involve front-loaded acceleration which can lead to form problems if you try to throw a disc that way. I've seen lots of people start that way and it is extremely difficult to help them with their form problems when they start hitting the ceiling that they are imposing on themselves.

Muscling the arm and shoulder is much more likely to happen with lighter weight objects. Because our brain thinks that for lightweight object like a disc, everything can be done with the arm. So we need to overcome that.

I think this is just backwards. You will HAVE to muscle the arm and shoulder to accelerate a very heavy disc irrespective of how you perceive it. The lighter the disc, the less effort it will take for that initial acceleration and the easier it will accelerate through the whip/snap.

 

[Salto]

I see what you mean now. Reflecting on my own form progress, the heavy weights lawnmower have been useful, but only up to a certain point. After which most progress was from weightless or disc drills. Interesting to see your perspective on the exertion being more early like with the lawnmower. I see your point, though I don't think it's problematic for working on form.

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[Brychanus]

I think this is just backwards. You will HAVE to muscle the arm and shoulder to accelerate a very heavy disc irrespective of how you perceive it. The lighter the disc, the less effort it will take for that initial acceleration and the easier it will accelerate through the whip/snap.

This is similar to trouble I had trying to get the "lawnmower" analogy. I was so used to loading weighted pulls through my upper body and arms (barbell lifts, opening cranky doors, restraining dog, etc.) that it took a long time to get any leg action of substance in my DG swing, and even longer (and still) to get a weight shift to properly leading the lagged disc.

 

[sidewinder22]

I object with Doof. If you try to strong arm a sledgehammer it definitely won't feel right.

I hearsay Christian Sandstrom used to throw weight plates in his training.

 

[navel]

I object with Doof. If you try to strong arm a sledgehammer it definitely won't feel right.

I hearsay Christian Sandstrom used to throw weight plates in his training.

That's correct. Right at the start he gives a bit of information on his off season training.
He throws heavier AND lighter OBJECTS.



Just throw things. Whatever and however. You will benefit from giving yourself the variation. Don't compensate on form and safety though. Balance all through the body.

 

[jakebake91]

***eyeballs large chunk of p20 steel on table next to me**

**Eyeballs CNC mill****


....boss would murder me.....