Player preferences in course layouts

[donnyv]

Hi Donnyv,

In lieu of directly answering the question, I thought it might be prudent to ask a few clarifying questions first.

The big question I have about the project is: who is the course for? It sounds like it is on your own property, but who is actually going to be playing it? Is it going to be invitation-only? Pay-to-play private? Do you plan on hosting events there?

In my opinion, determining the overall demographics of who you want to be playing the course (and who will actually be playing it) is critical to the design process. I'd love to give more suggestions, if you're willing/able to identify your target demographic.

It will reside at our house so it will have to be a private course. There will be certain times and days where my family and I would like our privacy so the course will not be available 24/7. Def don't want people peeking into house windows or just showing up whenever.

I'll have it available for people to play if they contact me for permission and set up a tee time. Club and league nights during the week with casual and possible tourneys for the weekend slots would work. Just planning on keeping it small and low key for now. I have a small proshop with a restroom inside the shop and a practice basket for putting.

As far as players go, I've had newbs thru very good advanced players (who can pretty much be called pros) play the old course. Pretty much need multiple tees to cater to most players.

 

[donnyv]

Hey bogey!

I agree more is not always better. I'm just ending up with a lot of cool 300-375' holes that play better one way over the other and connecting the dots for smooth flow and sense has been taxing my brain. Just too many possibilities here. All the baskets are portable-ish so I can at least change some things around if needed.

As for Tomahawk Park, it will have to be changed to a temporary course or extinct. The land is still in the family but future plans might limit the size and DG quality of land we could use. My brother will keep some baskets there but it won't be the same. I already took the baskets out for hunting season.

I've been looking to relocate the course for a long time and ended up moving the family as well. We went with a house on 30 nice acres over the shack on 84 acres of prime DG real estate that I really wanted to put courses on. Wife would've divorced me if we moved into a shack so we went with nice house. The 84 acres I had an eye on sold a week after we closed on our new place. The accepted offer came in real low too. Dang it

 

[Stardoggy]

You can't have enough 27 hole monsters.

 

[Sammish]

I don't like having anything other than 18 or 9 hole courses. Maybe I'm just a traditionalist.

On the other hand I don't want to have a course where it's going to take longer than hour to have a full practice round. I don't think I can walk fast enough to do 27 holes in an hour.

 

[jeverett]

It will reside at our house so it will have to be a private course. There will be certain times and days where my family and I would like our privacy so the course will not be available 24/7. Def don't want people peeking into house windows or just showing up whenever.

I'll have it available for people to play if they contact me for permission and set up a tee time. Club and league nights during the week with casual and possible tourneys for the weekend slots would work. Just planning on keeping it small and low key for now. I have a small proshop with a restroom inside the shop and a practice basket for putting.

As far as players go, I've had newbs thru very good advanced players (who can pretty much be called pros) play the old course. Pretty much need multiple tees to cater to most players.

Ok, some random thoughts, in no particular order..

Multiple tees (per hole) are probably most-meaningful for (calibrated) tournament play (and pace of play). If crowding on the course isn't a potential issue (and it sounds like it won't be), a single (calibrated white or perhaps blue level) tee is probably all you'll *need* (barring things like water carries). It sounds like you have more than enough space to handle at least an 18-hole blue-level course. Just as a really really rough benchmark (it depends on a huge number of factors), a calibrated par 54 gold-level course requires somewhere in the ballpark of 6500ft. total length (~360ft. average per hole), with a blue-level course needing somewhat less than that.

If you're thinking about hosting (full) two-round-per-day events, I'd probably go with an 18-hole loop option. Most large events that utilize 27-hole course layouts tend to go with just one round per day, although with a shorter/easier 27-hole layout, you might still have time for two full tourney rounds in a day.

 

[apparition]

I actually really love the sound of four 9-hole loops. Mainly the loop concept in general. Lately, I haven't enjoyed getting onto courses and being furthest from my vehicle at the 9th hole. I like looping around and having the option to stop at the car or whatever. Two loops is awesome. Four loops would be insane

 

[chrishysell]

it's your course, be the tyrant

 

[scarpfish]

Just my $.02, but I've always felt one of the advantages of having a private course was that if you didn't like what you had at any particular moment, you can always change it up, and then change it back later, or to something else entirely. You don't have to set up things in regard to the sort of permanence as you would see in a public park setting.

So really any of those options (or all of them) are good.

 

[DavidSauls]

I actually really love the sound of four 9-hole loops. Mainly the loop concept in general. Lately, I haven't enjoyed getting onto courses and being furthest from my vehicle at the 9th hole. I like looping around and having the option to stop at the car or whatever. Two loops is awesome. Four loops would be insane

I've played two places like this, and it's definitely a nice feature.

But it inevitably involves compromises that you wouldn't make if you weren't commited to getting back to the parking lot.

 

[donnyv]

Well, so far it looks like it's going to end up as 24-27 holes with 3 sets of tees each. I'm aiming for 2-3 seperate fairways on most holes to shake it up a little at the tee's and give it some extra replay value.

As much as I would like to make some par 4 or par 5 holes, I think I'm just gonna stick with par 3's for now since that is the norm for our area. Since the baskets will be somewhat portable, I can tinker with the design down the road to make it more difficult or longer.

Hole distances will range from 270' to 540' with most holes in the 325'-450' average with moderately wooded (but wide enough) fairways. More fun than lengthy or pitch and pray. I'll see if I can post up a map tommorrow.

 

[mattc]

i voted 2x18
but after reading all of this and thinking about it
i would say 18 badass holes + 9 more easier holes, might be a good answer

 

[tomdizzlefizzle]

I went a few posts In and all I can say is dont limit yourself. Look at the land and decide where great holes could be. Look at where those signature fun I want to throw again shots can be and dont limit yourself! 21,27,31,45 holes does that matter? I want to have fun throwing frisbees no matter how many holes! Think shots! Think whats fun!

 

[simpletwist]

Routing. I can make it easier for myself with 27 holes without having to worry about looping back to parking lot so soon. 27 would allow for a longer and tougher layout.

Do you want easy for yourself, or quality of play for the multitudes sure to show up. "If you build it they will come." I haven't voted yet and I'm still thinking about it from my perspective. No matter what you finally decide I think looping the course to a central location after every 9 is ideal. Coming from a ball golf background it only makes sense. Nine quality holes, a break, nine more, a break...

So I'm leaning towards either 4 nine holers or one 18 & one 9. Making the short tees beginner/novice friendly ensures repeat business as much as challenging the high skill players.

In any case good luck with the design.

Is it possible to make one 18 hole "pro" course with multiple tees and one 18 hole pitch and putt?

 

[donnyv]

It's kinda hard to picture this from the aerials but here's a little map of the potential 24 hole course with 3 tees per hole. It's a little hard to see (pic quality kinda sucks) but the tees (color-coded small circles RED WHITE BLUE) and distances on the map are where they will be. Some holes have 2 fairways that join together near the greens.

Holes 1-12 are a mix of lightly wooded and meadows with some elevation and water hazards with moderate distances

Holes 13-24 are a mix of lightly wooded to heavily wooded with slight elevation changes and longer distances

The walk from 18-19 looks a little tricky but it works. After almost 30 different possible designs, this layout is probably the most effective while keeping true to the flow of the land.

There are 3 spots that I can adjust to make it a 27-holer but that would require a change to the BLUE tees.

 

[MacDaddy]

I would tend to lean towards doing the best 18-holes layout possible with another 9-hole loop. Multi tees is a must as well as multi pin locations. And if you really want to maximize your number of unique holes... design a "counter-course" that runs backwards to your first layout! :thmbup: