Setting Par with Multiple Tees

[JESUSFR3AK]

I need a bit of help. There is a 9-hole DG course set up at a state park where I live in Hobbs, NM. However, there is not a Par set for the course. A friend and I have played it several times and have a decent idea of what par should be. But there is one problem . . . the difference between the Gold tees and the Red tees is pretty significant. The shortest difference is 70 feet (300 ft vs. 230 ft). The longest difference is 230 ft (680 ft vs. 450 ft)! How do we set par with such extreme differences?

I expect the gold tees to be more difficult, but 50% longer is quite a bit! I've played many rounds of "regular" golf, and the pro tees are usually only 10%-15% longer than the amateurs.

Do you suggest having two different pars, one for gold and one for red? Or do we set them as 1? 450 seems too short for a 5, but for an amateur 680 is awful long to expect them to be in the basket in 4! There is also a 550/700 foot hole. The total distance for the 9 holes is Red: 3310 (367 avg) and Gold: 4440 (493 avg).

There are some obstructions and we read up on how to adjust for those. The big question is whether two allow the pars to differ by a couple of strokes. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, doug

 

[scarpfish]

In before the long winded ensuing argument over par begins..

 

[sisyphus]

Not realy my area of expertise, but...Sooner or later, you'll wind up being directed to this great resource. So I'll just drop it on ya now. Good luck!

 

[jrawk]

Check this out:
http://www.pdga.com/files/ParGuidelines_1.pdf

 

[jeverett]

I need a bit of help. There is a 9-hole DG course set up at a state park where I live in Hobbs, NM. However, there is not a Par set for the course. A friend and I have played it several times and have a decent idea of what par should be. But there is one problem . . . the difference between the Gold tees and the Red tees is pretty significant. The shortest difference is 70 feet (300 ft vs. 230 ft). The longest difference is 230 ft (680 ft vs. 450 ft)! How do we set par with such extreme differences?

I expect the gold tees to be more difficult, but 50% longer is quite a bit! I've played many rounds of "regular" golf, and the pro tees are usually only 10%-15% longer than the amateurs.

Do you suggest having two different pars, one for gold and one for red? Or do we set them as 1? 450 seems too short for a 5, but for an amateur 680 is awful long to expect them to be in the basket in 4! There is also a 550/700 foot hole. The total distance for the 9 holes is Red: 3310 (367 avg) and Gold: 4440 (493 avg).

There are some obstructions and we read up on how to adjust for those. The big question is whether two allow the pars to differ by a couple of strokes. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, doug

Personally, I would set the 'gold' tee par using the gold standard, and the 'red' tee par using the red standard (i.e. they could ultimately end up being the same pars for each (or not), because the two different tees are intended for very different skill level players). Jrawk already posted the PDGA skill level guidelines, but I personally prefer using the 'Close Range Par' guidelines here:

https://sites.google.com/site/discgolfcoursedesign/Home/par/CRpar

Edit: for example, that 550/700 ft hole you mentioned.. the 'red' tee for that is somewhere right at the upper limit for a red-level par 4 (~540ft.), while the 'gold' tee for that is right in the par 4 range (upper limit ~830ft.).

 

[dreadlock86]

Do you suggest having two different pars, one for gold and one for red? Or do we set them as 1? 450 seems too short for a 5, but for an amateur 680 is awful long to expect them to be in the basket in 4! There is also a 550/700 foot hole. The total distance for the 9 holes is Red: 3310 (367 avg) and Gold: 4440 (493 avg).

i don't know how much foliage there is but since you didn't mention it, probably not too much.

in that case, 450 is way too short for a 5 and 680 is not too long for a 4. but regardless, why worry about what an amateur will shoot on the gold tee? it is a gold tee, worry about what a gold level player will shoot there.

i see no problem with having separate pars for separate tees. i've seen it on a bunch of courses.

 

[DavidSauls]

Separate pars for the appropriate skill levels. Without seeing the course, I wonder whether the red tees are really white or even blue level.

 

[knettles]

I always prefer keeping different tees same par for simplicitys sake, but there are times where it's definitely necessary. I've seen holes that pretty much doubled in length from red to white/white to blue.

 

[kerplunk]

I seems that a good strategy is to set par as what a pro or at least good advanced player could get from the gold tees, and then many of these pars will also be appropriate for less skilled players throwing from shorter tees. The 680 vs 450 foot hole is a good example. 680 is a good distance for a pro par 4, and 450 is a good distance for an am par 4. I guess many of the holes will probably play out like this.

 

[JESUSFR3AK]

A Little Clarification...

[From OP]
There is very little foliage for sure, though it only takes a few well placed trees to alter a shot. The course is long and wide open, but the designers made every effort to include what little trees were around. I'll see if I can snap a few pics the next time I'm there and then upload them.

When I play there, I typically stick with one set of tees for the front 9, and then I replay it again using the other set . . . hence, the desire to set the Par for both sets. What I am really looking to do is to set it up in such a way that I can play both and still have some type of comparison.

I suppose it is not really that important, as the fun is in slinging the disc, not keeping score; but I like numbers and the belief that I can improve. Setting Par allows me to do that.

Anyway, thanks for the responses. I look forward to playing new courses and improving my game.

 

[grodney]

Pars specific to the intended skill level are ideal; however, it RARELY works in real life. Therefore, I suggest setting them all to a generic skill level, using the guidelines below. Note that you very likely will end up with different pars for different tees on the same hole.



From the Par Encyclopedia:

If the hole was designed to be reached in 1 shot, it is a par 3.
If the hole was designed to be reached in 2 shots*, it is a par 4.
If the hole was designed to be reached in 3 shots**, it is a par 5.

If you can't easily tell how many shots a hole was designed to be reached in, there is probably a design problem with that hole.

Notes:
* Or, at the player's discretion, 1 heroic*** shot.
** Or, at the player's discretion, 2 heroic*** shots.
*** "heroic" implies risky and really really good.




If that doesn't work for you and/or you need a "rule", there's this:

This applies to the VAST MAJORITY of courses meant for NORMAL PUBLIC PLAY. Or even minor- to medium-sized tournaments.

If you can estimate elevation, adjust the hole lengths by 3 feet for every 1 foot of elevation change before applying the above table.

 

[Lewis]

At the course nearest my house, there are two pads and two baskets on each hole. One of the holes plays about 600' to the "gold" basket, and about 300' to the "silver" basket, regardless of the tee pad chosen (the flight lines are different, but the distance is not). On another hole, the gold pad to the gold basket is ~450', and plays longer due to the shape of the fairway, but silver to silver, the same hole is under 300' and a straight shot. It's silly to force a single par across all options on holes like this, so from my experience I've got no problem with setting different pars for different tee pads.

 

[dreadlock86]

If you can't easily tell how many shots a hole was designed to be reached in, there is probably a design problem with that hole.

:clap: