(At the risk of making a big internet mistake...)Is the Postman is an improvement from Starting the Lawnmower or the Swim Move?
Neither, it's a stop the front shoulder drill
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(At the risk of making a big internet mistake...)Is the Postman is an improvement from Starting the Lawnmower or the Swim Move?
I'm in the "neither" camp, too. Looks like 3 different drills to me, none of them an improvement over the other.(At the risk of making a big internet mistake...)
Neither, it's a stop the front shoulder drill
Did you just make up a quote from me compiling it from different sentences to suite you? I never wrote that sentence.Is the Postman an improvement from Starting the Lawnmower or the Swim Move?
I didn't make up any of your words, you can see your original quote if you click on it, I paraphrased it to help discussion (cleaned out some of the BS). Anyway moving along...Did you just make up a quote from me compiling it from different sentences to suite you? I never wrote that sentence.
And like others have stated, this has nothing to do with YOUR swim move nor the lawn mower. The off arm is not moving in the postman, that is why I say to hold on to something. I believe the Swim move is a passive one, something that happens if the arm hangs lose as the body turns. It looks like the arm is moved when it only works naturally so, if it's let to work.
...I was already done and ready continue with my life, but looks like made enemies for life here. Nice.
+1 to all of this. As adults, you two (sidewinder and Janni) can choose to, or not to, hug it out. However, *please* take the discussion to DM. It would be a tragedy if a moderator felt like they needed to take action and we lose both your presences hereFWIW @Jaani not everyone appears to be an enemy here, and I appreciate it any time people actually hash their stuff out. That's where learning also can occur for wondering eyes and onlookers.
FWIW2 @Jaani whether you watch it or not, I thought that while Kuoksa made some even-keeled remarks on specific mechanics points, I also felt that there were some undertones in parts of the video that I would not have appreciated myself. Just discussing the mechanics & concepts & comparing and contrasting would have been fine. I don't know that we need "hit pieces" as much as sober discussions and data in the end.
FWIW3 @sidewinder22 and @Jaani both, it's really not my business, but also I really hope you guys find a way to hash it out. Looks like it'd be tough to find a way back and meet in the middle, but you obviously both care a lot about disc golf and its growth at the bottom of it.
Despite the tension, there have been interesting points about specific mechanics concepts and how to teach them in this thread.
As someone that has been researching form since the dark ages of DGCR and discgolfreview, i.e. before the dg boom on YouTube, your videos have been fantastic for the reasons you stated here. You have an elite talent for visually expressing athletic movements in very digestible media. You've made the lightbulb go off in my head more times with these short vids of yours than all the walls of text I used to read on forums or oldschool dg vids combined. So thanks for that.I only care about people avoiding the same mistakes I made when I still had the chance to learn the game and play competitively. I can provide some insight from experience, since I have gone through all the troubles and flaws known to man. And tried to fix them, too. Getting analysis paralysis. This is why I'm against stacking up dozens of deliberate moves to fix a simple flaw. The only aim for a disc golfer should be to let the body work as it should, and let go. We have to get over the restrictions of technique to reach the flow state, where you just execute by instinct. Adding conscious moves and self-awareness is doing the contrary.
I was just asking Jaani's honest opinion about technique. Maybe his thoughts had changed or not. IDK.+1 to all of this. As adults, you two (sidewinder and Janni) can choose to, or not to, hug it out. However, *please* take the discussion to DM. It would be a tragedy if a moderator felt like they needed to take action and we lose both your presences here
Did you watch the videos in my post?As I understand it, the swim move is a less pronounced version of the Double Move by SlingShot. Both can be achieved not by moving the arm but by letting it swing as it does if the body moves a certain way.
I toyed around with different hip moves the other day. I don't have the video anymore, but I looked pretty much like Paul McBeth with the off-arm swing and "swim." It happened purely by accident as I swung my hips forward mid-stride. I emphasised the hip bump, and I was pretty early with it, but sure enough, my off-arm swung forward, too. And as I didn't tense it, it got left behind as the body rotated open.
And every time someone points out how I "use" my off arm (it's most often really passive unless I throw hard standstills), it's only following the moves of my pelvis—going down and forward (the direction of the throw) but a fraction before the pelvis SEEMS to move. I have no data to back this claim, but it could be because the arm is lighter; it also moves faster, making it seem like it starts the move when it is still a reactionary, involuntary move.
This is why I don't believe the off arm does anything but indicate the moves in the body. Moving the arm wastes energy and focus because it's only a reactionary move that doesn't need our attention. I also asked Seppo about his off-arm, and he said he never even thought about moving it... but as you can see, it moves A LOT and is pronounced "move".
At least, that is how my body works, and it could be how most of the bodies work when we let them work. We can't time all the dozens of moves perfectly. We have to let the body work for us. I know it's fun and enlightening to see how the body works and moves and all the details, but to execute a shot, we must let all the moves happen as they do without us forcing them. Like The Double Move, the Swim move seems to be forced and unnecessary, even if the timing is perfectly trained and works for Paul and Drew. Most of us aren't that good and will never be.
I did.Did you watch the videos in my post?
In the Whip Step vid I specifically said that you don't need to really move the arm, but it's the shoulder.As I understand it, the swim move... can be achieved not by moving the arm but by letting it swing as it does if the body moves a certain way.
I don't teach only one way to do some things. Maybe the word move is getting lost in translation. Here I'm giving the rear arm a task - to not spill the beverage, so it's staying out of the way/not disrupting the flow.I guess I'm confused because it seems you are teaching something you call a move without it being a conscious move. That is why I don't teach off arm (at least not yet) because I don't want people to start moving it, when all it needs to do is stay out of the way and relaxed.
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This is why I'm against stacking up dozens of deliberate moves to fix a simple flaw. The only aim for a disc golfer should be to let the body work as it should, and let go. We have to get over the restrictions of technique to reach the flow state, where you just execute by instinct. Adding conscious moves and self-awareness is doing the contrary.
Just wanted to mention here too because I think timothy and I end up having a lot in common in part of our learning styles:The way my brain is wired, it doesn't work at all, and leads only to frustration, blame, and guilt. Possibly my learning style can be reprogrammed, there is some debate over how fixed these styles are. Brychanus may know more. Regardless, my progress has generally been better with the analytical, method-based, rather than results-based approach.