Tournament Software Package

[bwgort]

We already had a high profile failure of this scoring technology with Rickie's 2-shot penalty for not entering his scores correctly at the Memorial. He had the Udisc live scoring display he could see online during the round to make corrections if he saw his mistakes. The mistake was only caught due to video editing which resulted in the group going back through the holes mentally to confirm the correct scores since video evidence not yet allowed.

I could be wrong but wasn't the score correct on UDISC and incorrect on the card? If so, how was this a high profile failure of scoring technology? To me it seems like a high profile example of how scoring technology can help players avoid 2 stroke penaltys.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I could be wrong but wasn't the score correct on UDISC and incorrect on the card? If so, how was this a high profile failure of scoring technology? To me it seems like a high profile example of how scoring technology can help players avoid 2 stroke penaltys.

The scoring technology didn't help Rickie discover the error any more than he might have with a paper scorecard even with the info in his face. As I mentioned above, not really a tech failure but failure to prevent or reduce the error.

 

[DavidSauls]

With an electronic scorecard you'd definitely get fewer math errors---which are the majority of scoring errors that get turned in, at least that I've seen.

But you might well get more errors on individual holes. When adding and checking a card, you have a chance to notice a wrong score on a particular hole; when relying on the machine to do the math, you're less likely to look carefully at each hole score.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

With an electronic scorecard you'd definitely get fewer math errors---which are the majority of scoring errors that get turned in, at least that I've seen.

But you might well get more errors on individual holes. When adding and checking a card, you have a chance to notice a wrong score on a particular hole; when relying on the machine to do the math, you're less likely to look carefully at each hole score.

I find that this true; I am more likely to incorrectly attribute a score with an app than a scorecard. But due care avoids the error in both instances. Surely there is no perfect system, but there is a certain lure for me in the potential ease of scoring for a TD. Incidentally, golf already has numerous software packages for tournaments, most of which print out score cards and have leaderboard displays. I didn't check to see if any of them allow for score entry via an app.

 

[lyleoross]

I have experience in dealing with programs that service the "I'm not interested" crowd. Medicare Supplemental online applications. It doesn't always work, but if done right, you get huge advantages. What's more, once some do it, the others follow.

I hate the phone zombie issue, gawd, I have a 14 year old. It's hard to uncouple myself. It's bad form to facebook or screw with your phone during a round. It isn't, hey we're out here to yak, as much as, pay attention you git.

That said, better get ready for it, it's coming like it or not. There are ways to mitigate and control problems. One is non-live data entry with a submit option. Data captured on device. sent periodically. Yep, you can still have a crash of the device, but that's easy to. Each player scores their own and it syncs through the server to each players phone with verbal confirmation of scores.

The interface is essential. Typically, tech savvy people like to overload interfaces. They like document entry styles where there are multiple fields on one page. The solution is single data entry pages with tabs. Nothing looks like a form. This works pretty well with the retired crowd. Keeps it simple and straight forward. They aren't digging. During your round you have an interface for scoring with a couple of buttons for different outcomes (ob etc.). Then a second tab with the score card in total.

 

[lyleoross]

With an electronic scorecard you'd definitely get fewer math errors---which are the majority of scoring errors that get turned in, at least that I've seen.

But you might well get more errors on individual holes. When adding and checking a card, you have a chance to notice a wrong score on a particular hole; when relying on the machine to do the math, you're less likely to look carefully at each hole score.

I find that this true; I am more likely to incorrectly attribute a score with an app than a scorecard. But due care avoids the error in both instances. Surely there is no perfect system, but there is a certain lure for me in the potential ease of scoring for a TD. Incidentally, golf already has numerous software packages for tournaments, most of which print out score cards and have leaderboard displays. I didn't check to see if any of them allow for score entry via an app.

Double submission solves this. We use it in data entry for applications and other documentation. You can also program so the device verbalizes the entered score.

There are lots of ways to ensure data integrity, you just have to decide how much work, and what's a good balance.

 

[Cgkdisc]

One way that seems to work well is offering to do our group's scores on my DG scoring app while the others in the group take turns writing scores on the official paper scorecard for 6 holes each. We then use the electronic score totals to help confirm or correct the manual math done with the scorecard.

 

[PBokor]

I'm a believer in the old adage that Nothing is foolproof, because fools are so ingenious.

Or it's correlative, "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - 1989 (Unknown)

 

[ru4por]

Most people have smartphones, even in Master's divisions.

It is likely most don't want to use them on the course.

They can just hand off their phone to the other players, just like a scorecard. If they don't want to, then just use a paper scorecard. If the TD had two paper scorecards to deal with instead of 50 its purpose is still served.

I don't want your phone, or the responsibility that comes with borrowing it, carrying it, protecting it.



Then use paper. Duh.

This is a tried and tested method, we agree.

People just hate change. Seriously, what if no one has a pencil, I mean, who carries pencils around with them? Will they have to not only use the pencil but sacrifice their precious graphite just to play in a disc golf tournament? OMG, what if it rains and the paper gets wet? There is just no way that pencil and paper would work in the real world.

I am not sure it is change, just the lack of effort, reliability and need to tote around an electronic device. I don't see where the pencil and paper will be completely replaced, so it is just more work, not less. I get that you kids need your phones and seek to find a way to use it more often. It is just not my style. My hobbies are designed to eliminate most electronics.

I hope my message is not received as condemning you for having ideas.........I am just not interested in this kind of extra work. :thmbup:

 

[DavidSauls]

Or it's correlative, "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - 1989 (Unknown)

As soon as I read that, I thought, Douglas Adams. And a little google search seems to confirm my hunch.

 

[DavidSauls]

A few more features you might ask for:

* Integration with online registration, so late registrants can sign up online up to the moment of checking in.
* Along with an integrated withdrawal/waitlist replacement system.
* Ability for TD to provide a course map, specific rules per hole, and even a digital caddy book.
* A prominent Next Round Time alert.
* Perhaps even a digital check-in, if there's nothing to be handed out. If you can punch a button to verify you're there, and just show up for the player's meeting. (Not sure if this is a good idea or not. Would certainly have to be a TD option)

Whether it's a hypothetical or a pipe dream, it might as well be as fully functional as possible.

 

[krupicka]

A few more features you might ask for:


* Ability for TD to provide a course map, specific rules per hole, and even a digital caddy book.

That along with the ability to have unusual hole number sequences is on the wish list I've gave Ganz for the PDGA app.

 

[DavidSauls]

That along with the ability to have unusual hole number sequences is on the wish list I've gave Ganz for the PDGA app.

Good point. It would definitely have to accommodate odd numbers of holes, and holes with odd numbering. Or lettering, as the case may be.

 

[scarpfish]

Most people have smartphones, even in Master's divisions.

But not all people do which always invites the possibility that a card could be without one. I do get tired of this 'everyone has this' attitude that people who embrace a certain technology have, because far more people than they would ever realize don't have it.

They can just hand off their phone to the other players, just like a scorecard.

Except it's not just a scorecard. It's an expensive electronic device that often costs hundreds of dollars, and contains personal information that the owner might not want others having access to.