Val drops Innova?

[corin_brown]

Anyone know what this is all about?

http://www.valariejenkins.com/announcements/standing-up-for-a-positive-future

 

[Nova P]

It would appear that she explained herself quite plainly. It looks like she's no longer comfortable taking their money, because they're not doing enough for women. I can dig that. Doing the right thing is hard, and can cost money, but is nevertheless the right thing to do.

 

[UKfan]

:clap::clap::thmbup:

I agree with her position 100%. She is a 4x World Champion and needs to be treated with the respect that the top male players receive from Innova or any other company.

 

[Keller]

:clap::clap::thmbup:

I agree with her position 100%. She is a 4x World Champion and needs to be treated with the respect that the top male players receive from Innova or any other company.

No, not really. She is a minority in a male dominated sport. I respect the women players and like watching them at times, but a world title in WPO is not the same, the women's field is just too small to garner much interest. A business is looking out for there best long term interests and, unfortunately, it's not too heavy on the women's side.

Part of the problem lies with all the knuckle heads who refuse to throw a female sig disc. Things will change though, I remember a few years ago when it was considered rather fruity to throw a Pink disc, now they want a premium for them on some web sights!

I'm sure Val has here ducks in a row and knows what she's doing, and, I wish her the best. Maybe she'll go to Discraft and they can have Husband/Wife team.

 

[SD86]

There are several issues within the context of what Val said in her statement. It sounds like she informed Innova of her decision BEFORE winning her fourth Worlds title, so maybe the disc she was given as a sig disc (the not-good-selling Starfire instead of a more popular disc like the Tern or Roadrunner) wasn't the only reason.

This sounds like it was a building problem. She said she felt like she was not supported as a woman. Maybe in being a 4x World Champ but not getting nearly the perks Innova's other 4x (or more) champs were getting?

It also occurred to me that the DGWT's snub of not having a women's division added to her frustration. Jussi's european anti-women views offended the heck out of the DG world's women, and who can blame them? Sarah Hokum refused to play in the DGWT's final event (USDGC) despite being offered a slot after winning the USWDGC. The women of DG (except for Cat) were all angry about that, and some were vocal about it. And that DGWT snub of women is going to linger, despite them creating a women's division for this year, IIRC.

So maybe Val had an issue with Innova/Discmania's atttitude towards women (which was a misogynist one for sure, in my opinion) in the DGWT situation. Maybe there are some other things, as well.
__________________

 

[Mulligan]

Maybe someone can clarify to me what Innova should have been doing?
Not being snarky here, legit question cause I'm ignorant of the behind the scenes issues for pros.
She got a signature disc, and I quick FB search shows that they put out a pretty awesome video congratulating her/supporting her just in Oct. She's world champ, had the largest DG company by a long shot as her sponsor, and Chair of the PDGA Women's Committee... seems to me like thats an ideal position to be in.
Keller has a point that the audience just isn't there yet, so I'm wondering what other things Innova could/should have been working on with her that might have avoided this?

 

[Anon]

No, not really. She is a minority in a male dominated sport. I respect the women players and like watching them at times, but a world title in WPO is not the same, the women's field is just too small to garner much interest. A business is looking out for there best long term interests and, unfortunately, it's not too heavy on the women's side.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

 

[Nova P]

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

The problem is, if the sport is 92% men and 8% women, so the manufacturers give men preferential treatment, more sponsorships, bigger cuts of the tournament prizes, and easier access to representation, do you think that the fraction of women playing will increase or decrease?

Pandering to the majority is how you keep the majority in control. The bottom line on the spreadsheet is not where fairness is found, as doing things unfairly is often more profitable.

That is, for example, why the government regulates business in the broader world. If left unchecked, workers would be exploited, the environment would be ravaged, and so on, because there's no good business case for treating workers right or preserving the environment. And if just one company does the right (and more expensive) thing, and the others do not, the others will stomp all over the company doing the right thing.

So yeah, doing the right thing for women will affect the bottom line negatively, but if disc golf wants fairness for women, it will cost money, and that is (pun intended) a hard sell. Doing the right thing is hard. If it was easy, everyone would do it all the time.

 

[Keller]

The problem is, if the sport is 92% men and 8% women, so the manufacturers give men preferential treatment, more sponsorships, bigger cuts of the tournament prizes, and easier access to representation, do you think that the fraction of women playing will increase or decrease?

Pandering to the majority is how you keep the majority in control. The bottom line on the spreadsheet is not where fairness is found, as doing things unfairly is often more profitable.

That is, for example, why the government regulates business in the broader world. If left unchecked, workers would be exploited, the environment would be ravaged, and so on, because there's no good business case for treating workers right or preserving the environment. And if just one company does the right (and more expensive) thing, and the others do not, the others will stomp all over the company doing the right thing.

So yeah, doing the right thing for women will affect the bottom line negatively, but if disc golf wants fairness for women, it will cost money, and that is (pun intended) a hard sell. Doing the right thing is hard. If it was easy, everyone would do it all the time.

Idealistically, what you say makes complete sense, but in the real world, money talks, not ideals. When Ideals start making money, that's when they'll matter. We just had an elections where Ideals bit the big one. Not saying ideals don't matter, it's just about picking your battles, and unfortunately, disc golf is just not that big a battle ground and most likely, the 92% who buy discs, probably don't much care.

 

[DanJon]

Well it's a business first and foremost.

I respect her decision, but I wonder how much revenue Innova makes from their Men's Pro Team versus their Women's Pro Team?

For the record I do think she deserved a signature disc that would actually sell.

More for her dedication and her long term success in the sport, than for her ability to bring in revenue for the company.

 

[Nova P]

When Ideals start making money, that's when they'll matter.

Money is not the only kind of "value" in the world. I see a value in fairness for all, in helping everyone thrive, not just those for and from whom a buck can be made.

Not saying ideals don't matter, it's just about picking your battles, and unfortunately, disc golf is just not that big a battle ground and most likely, the 92% who buy discs, probably don't much care.

Disc golf is the sport I play, so I don't get to pick the battle. The battle is right here where I am. It matters to me, and I daresay it matters to every woman who shows up for a tourney in their division of one, because they were the only one to show up.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

MVP has a spot for Val im sure...

Cool on her. Weird for innova.

 

[GoldeyeGolf]

It also occurred to me that the DGWT's snub of not having a women's division added to her frustration. Jussi's european anti-women views offended the heck out of the DG world's women, and who can blame them? Sarah Hokum refused to play in the DGWT's final event (USDGC) despite being offered a slot after winning the USWDGC. The women of DG (except for Cat) were all angry about that, and some were vocal about it. And that DGWT snub of women is going to linger, despite them creating a women's division for this year, IIRC.

So maybe Val had an issue with Innova/Discmania's atttitude towards women (which was a misogynist one for sure, in my opinion) in the DGWT situation. Maybe there are some other things, as well.
__________________

That's more than a little exteme, don't you think? He made a business decision-why read more into it than that? And is there not a women's division in the DGWT this year?

 

[Billolick]

so what plastic is she gonna throw? Interesting development any way you slice it

 

[corin_brown]

It would appear that she explained herself quite plainly.

It's actually not that plain. In fact, it's pretty vague. And there's zero context provided.

I had no idea that disc golf companies treated women pros so badly (except for maybe DGWT last season, by offerening their ridiculous "one division, one champion" band-aid/excuse for not having an FPO division.)

I got the impression that besides McBeth and maybe Rick, disc golf companies treated all pros equally shabby. I recall Philo and Barsby, among others, making public statements in 2016 about a general lack of sponsor support.

Val's accusations could be 100% true and I believe that she is acting in good faith but she has provided zero specifics in her statement about what exactly Innova did or did not do to that caused her to act.

She states, "I am leaving because of the countless honors I have been denied, because I am a woman." Ok. Sounds interesting. I'm all ears. So exactly what "honors" are we talking about?

Of course, Val doesn't have to justify her actions or statements to anyone, when she advocates any cause she chooses - no one does. But to say that she "explained herself quite plainly" is just not true. If anything, the mystery has deepened lol.

 

[frasnow]

Jussi's european anti-women views offended the heck out of the DG world's women, and who can blame them?

That's more than a little exteme, don't you think? He made a business decision-why read more into it than that? And is there not a women's division in the DGWT this year?

You can't justify any form of sexism, racism, etc. on the argument it's a good business decision. I am glad they made a change this year to add a women's division. Hopefully there will be, to play off their marketing last year, Two Divisions - Two Champions.

 

[SD86]

That's more than a little exteme, don't you think? He made a business decision-why read more into it than that? And is there not a women's division in the DGWT this year?

No I don't think it's extreme at all. Jussi was adamant about not having a separate women's division in the DGWT last year. The way the women objected and even boycotted suggests to me that there was a problem far beyond just having one grouping or making a 'business decision'.

Then when Cat went over and played, I repeatedly watched the videos where the cameras focused on Cat's fourth point of contact (that's her derriere, for the non-Airborne dirty nasty legs out there) in what many would consider an offensive way (if I want to watch porn, I'll go to the Playboy channel; Cat looks good but I tune in to watch the disc golf, ya kow...).

No, I'll stand by my opinion, as stated.

 

[loki the trickster]

Money is not the only kind of "value" in the world. I see a value in fairness for all, in helping everyone thrive, not just those for and from whom a buck can be made.



Disc golf is the sport I play, so I don't get to pick the battle. The battle is right here where I am. It matters to me, and I daresay it matters to every woman who shows up for a tourney in their division of one, because they were the only one to show up.

The problem is if fairness is what ruled discgolf then is it " fair" for a woman world's champion who plays in a gender protected pool and with less competition to get the same compensation as someone who takes on everyone and travels the globe promoting your company?

Yes val should have been better compensated.

 

[Anon]

Money is not the only kind of "value" in the world. I see a value in fairness for all, in helping everyone thrive, not just those for and from whom a buck can be made.

This is easy to say when you aren't running the business.

 

[SD86]

Idealistically, what you say makes complete sense, but in the real world, money talks, not ideals. When Ideals start making money, that's when they'll matter. We just had an elections where Ideals bit the big one. Not saying ideals don't matter, it's just about picking your battles, and unfortunately, disc golf is just not that big a battle ground and most likely, the 92% who buy discs, probably don't much care.

I'd say ideals won the last election, and corruption lost.

As to this Val situation: I understand business decisions, but one does not have to outright discriminate in making that business decision. I don't say that from a perspective of 'ideals', but in that Innova could've made 'business decisions' that were win-win, not win-offend. I'm not sure what it was, but Val got offended by something (as Paige got offended by something Prodigy did, IMHO), and Val acted. It'd be nice if we knew more, but until we do, it's all good speculation.