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What's Holding Disc Golf Back

martygregwah

Newbie
Joined
May 29, 2011
Messages
14
Location
Indianapolis
This is the latest post to my blog. Visit it any time at martygregoire.blogspot.com.

If you are an avid disc golfer, you have likely played hundreds of rounds, both recreational and competitive. If you have competed in multiple PDGA sanctioned events, you probably have at some point or another found yourself wondering how this sport could be improved, or how it could be pushed further into the mainstream. 30 or 40 players at a C-tier is great, but why not 100?

What can be done to make this great sport more appealing to the masses, and more importantly, to the potential big name sponsors that could get behind it? No disrespect to companies like Innova, Discraft, DGA, Gateway, etc. But imagine the potential interest generated for the sport if Adidas,Nike, or Ping put their name on some merch. Seriously, have you seen some of the sports that make the Olympics? It's ridiculous. Why not us?

Some would say getting big names involved could be bad for the sport. Some people appreciate the small and local culture of disc golf and wouldn't want it to erupt into something that big. I can understand that, but I strongly disagree. I'd give my throwing arm to be able to watch the PDGA World Championships or the USDGC live on ESPN. OK...maybe my left arm.

Some recent activity from my active #discgolf Twitter brethren has spawned a debate, and I thought it'd be cool to get some feedback from as many golfers as possible. There have been a few main issues that have always been controversial in the disc golf world. The first being dress codes at PDGA sanctioned tournaments. If you'd like to see the current dress code, click here.

Currently the dress code is only enforced at PDGA National Tour/Elite Series events and Majors. The dress code for any event lower than that is enforced by the TD to whatever standards he/she pleases. Should all sanctioned events have a dress code? If so, how strict? Should a C-tier with 35 players be held to the same standards as an A-tier with 180 players? Should all divisions have to meet the same requirements or is it more important to only enforce a dress code for Open players?

The question is interesting and has to be considered in many ways. First off, disc golf is generally a FREE activity outside of the costs of a few discs. This doesn't exactly drive high-income folks to the game. My point is this, and I'm sure you can all agree in some way. Many of the disc golfers I know play the sport because it is fun and cheap, and would not want to fork out $25 for a Polo or Dri-Fit shirt on top of the fees they already pay to compete in the tournaments. Hell, a good majority of the disc golfers I know are currently unemployed. Extra income for collared shirts for disc golf seems like an almost backwards concept.

If we want to move the sport forward though, there is no question that we need to clean up our act. The big name pros do need to look nice, like professionals, like they take the sport seriously. And most of them do. Thanks to great companies like Dynamic Discs, LSDiscs, and Huck Lab, there are plenty of ways to dress nicely in an affordable way, and still look like a disc golfer.

If I had to guess, I'd say the big name companies are probably looking past the dress code issues and seeing the bigger issues. Disc golf is generally viewed by the uneducated public as a sport for beer drinking, pot smoking, deadbeats. I've played plenty of courses where at first glance this seems to be inherently true. Indianapolis for instance has more courses in the worst part of town than anywhere else. It makes it hard to appear to the public as a nice group of friendly people when your parks are located in the highest crime-rated area of the city. Beer bottles, litter, and cigarette butts spread across the course grounds only strengthens this perception. I know none of the guys I play with are out there throwing beer bottles on the ground, but it does happen, a lot more than it should.

There's never going to be a good way to put a stop to drinking or smoking on the courses during recreational rounds, and I am actually OK with that. I'd be lying to you if I said I didn't PREFER to have a few beers during a rec round on a beautiful day in the park, so long as we keep the trash where it belongs. It's during tournaments where the sport needs to be cleaned up.

Personally, I think cigarette smoking should be banned from all sanctioned tournaments, and I was happy to see that the World Championships have taken that approach this year. Name one sport that you've seen on TV where cigarettes are openly being smoked, especially during the actual play of the sport. Darts? Uhhhh....yeah I can't think of anything else. Is that we want to be compared to? Bar games? Stricter punishments should also be enforced for alcohol during the tournaments and between rounds when in plain view of the public. If you want a beer during the break, trust me I understand, but drink it off site.

Last but not least, there are way too many people playing in sanctioned tournaments that don't know the first thing about the official rules or etiquette. The PDGA now requires Open players to pass a rules test prior to competing in NT and Major events. But why just Open players? I generally play Advanced and I still end up on cards where people don't understand some of the more fundamental rules. Foot-faults, OB rules, Mandos...these should all be required knowledge to play in a sanctioned event. I want to focus on my shot, not explain to you why I brought my disc in 1 meter from the OB line I landed near.

I played in a C-tier a few months ago where someone had their dog with them during the round. Are you ****ing kidding me?! That **** is NOT legal and is absurdly disrespectful and distracting. The TD is to blame. TD's need to start standing up for their tournaments. Be proud of the event you are running and don't take **** from anybody. Rules need to be enforced. OB lines and hazards need to be clearly marked. 10 meter lines should ALWAYS be painted around the baskets if at all possible. My biggest pet peeve is when the TD allows everyone to chit-chat during the player's meeting. Grow a pair of balls and tell everyone to shut their mouth for 10 minutes while you make the important announcements everyone should hear for the tournament. It's the *******s that talk through the player's meeting that never know where the OB lines are or what tee pad they need to be throwing from.

So this ended up being way longer than I expected, but oh well. Use the comments area below to start a fight with me and other readers.

#discgolf

Marty Gregwah
Twitter: @martygregwah
PDGA #28647
martygregoire.blogspot.com
 
welcome to the site, and nice long well written post.

in regards to TD's, it isn't very easy for them to be extremely strict. i do see and understand your point, but TD's put in a ton of work, make little money if any on a tourney and are friends with the people playing in an event. this is a hobby for 99.9% of people that play. the most important thing is to have fun.

eventually the sport will need a better image to get on espn, big sponsors, etc, but i think the sport first needs to get bigger. most people still have no idea what disc golf is. they don't need their perception of it changed, they need to learn the game. disc golf can't become huge until many more people even know what the sport is. eventually the sport should be cleaned up, and tournaments more tightly run.... but at this point it is a hobby, a wonderful hobby between friends trying to relax and enjoy some time away from work playing a wonderful game.

in order for the sport to grow it needs to be done on a grass roots level, installing more courses, having active clubs get more and more members, teaching the games to kids, in high schools, etc.

my .02
 
Nothing is holding disc golf back. Its growing by leaps and bounds. More and more companies getting involved. New courses everywhere. More tourneys with ever bigger purses. People who think the sport is being held back are:
1. way too impatient, or
2. blind to what's going on around them, or
3. both
 
Marty,

You pose an interesting question that I'm sure I will be thinking about all day. Unfortunately, I think your answer really misses the point.

Dress code - A lack of dress code is not what holds the sport back. If you're in a B-Tier or lower event, no one's there to watch you anyway, it doesn't matter what you look like.
Rules - Often times the only opportunity for people to become educated in the rules is to actually play in events. Have a little patience and teach them rather than ranting online about them.
Money - Sure, money grows any sport. But it's not rich players we need, it's rich sponsors. But sponsors will only come around when there's an audience, which gets us back to the original question.

I have more thoughts on this subject, but am having trouble articulating them at the moment. Stay tuned...
 
There's just not as much of a spread from chucker level to elite level in disc golf, so the growth is less apparent. The difference between Ken Climo and your beer swilling chucker leaving beer cans right next to trash barrels and all over the course is not as much as the difference between Phil Michalson and your average beer swilling par 3 bolfer.
 
There's just not as much of a spread from chucker level to elite level in disc golf, so the growth is less apparent. The difference between Ken Climo and your beer swilling chucker leaving beer cans right next to trash barrels and all over the course is not as much as the difference between Phil Michalson and your average beer swilling par 3 bolfer.

I wonder if that's just a reflection of our generally all par 3 type courses. KC would beat an average chucker by a lot more strokes on a championship type course with real par 4 and 5 holes than he possibly could on a typical SSA ~50 course.
 
Okay, I know it's been covered in 350 other threads but there is at least two major sports where competitors smoke or chew tobacco: the PGA tour and MLB. The TV networks that cover it try their best not to show it but occasionally you will catch a glimpse of a competitor smoking at a PGA event.
 
My first answer to the original question: marketing.

There's no doubt that there has been significant growth at the lower levels of the sport. In New England, we're filling up tournaments nearly every weekend, most without PDGA sanctioning. There is definite grass roots interest in the sport. However, tournaments still don't have that "event" feel to them. There are no spectators aside from a few other disc golfers who maybe didn't manage to get off the waitlist.

Little things can make a big difference. Send press releases to the local papers. One before announcing the tournament and one after with results. Sure, if it gets published it will likely be buried somewhere obscure, but it's better than nothing. How about putting up a banner in the park? A flyer on the bulletin board by tee one doesn't advertise your event to the outside world. The best way to do this would be to have tournaments in conjuction with other major events. Lets say you have a course on a park that is hosting a big holiday festival with cookouts, music, maybe a 5k road race. Have a tournament on the same day and piggy back on the festival's marketing effort. Now you've got an audience in the area, and enough publicity that curious onlookers might stop to check it out.
 
yeah, my belief on banning things is if they are illegal, ban it! This will actually end up banning cigarettes in a month in NC (as all public parks are going non-smoking, a-la NYC), which I think is stupid, but it's the law. Beer drinking is illegal in parks, as are (obviously) pot and other crap like that. As for the dogs, for a doubles tournament or something like that, I say bring it. But for PDGA's, leave bowser at home.

And I totally agree about the stigma of disc golf held by many non-disc golfers.... I'll tell someone I can't do something because I have a disc golf tournament, and some people just don't get it. I think getting some big name sponsors wouldn't hurt- I mean, hell... it can only bring more competitive products and prices.

I'd love to see the game grow more and more, and I think the pdga is doing the right thing by getting a youth movement started. I'm starting to hear about local school clubs, and seeing the collegiate championships are two excellent moves. I think clinics and expos like that could only help too.
 
I was in no way suggesting that dress code is what is holding the sport back. Just wanted to pose it is as an issue and see what people think. However, the idea of "If you're in a B-Tier or lower event, no one's there to watch you anyway, it doesn't matter what you look like." is a ridiculous way to look at the sport. That's the kind of passive attitude that will prevent said B-tiers from growing into something bigger and better.

As far as the rules, learn them by asking questions at leagues and rec rounds. I don't think it's too much to ask of someone to read the rulebook that comes with your PDGA membership after signing up. You sign up so you can play sanctioned events, correct? I don't want to have to "teach" people during a sanctioned event, ever. I want to focus and play the best golf I can.
 
Good post, hope to hear some equally well thought out responses.. :thmbup:

I don't agree with your assumption that litter, dress codes, alcohol and drugs are holding the sport back.

What does it take for a new sport to break through?

I think you look at where is the money being made. The fact of the matter is that the money being made in the sport is miniscule compared to other newish sports that have broken through to the mainstream. Look at the X-games sports. Snowboarding alone has a revenue of about $500 million (ref). The equipment to play is EXPENSIVE and you add on to that lift tickets, etc. This revenue in turn drives advertising, TV deals, etc.. Companies want to reach snowboarders because they have MONEY to spend. Where is this happening in disc golf? What are the annual revenues of Innova and Discraft? Nowhere close. There's your answer.

I think this game HAS reached the masses. Over 3,400 courses in the US is a testament to that. Now to get on cable TV there just needs to be more people and companies making a lot more money within the sport. (and this is somewhat a chicken before the egg thing). Kind of sad but that's the way things work in this country.

One of key aspects of this sport up to this point is that it's cheap to play and fun. Maybe we should be happy with internet live broadcasts since ESPN ain't gonna come knockin' anytime soon.. And if they do it means that the demographic of disc golfers would have significantly changed.
 
I wonder if that's just a reflection of our generally all par 3 type courses. KC would beat an average chucker by a lot more strokes on a championship type course with real par 4 and 5 holes than he possibly could on a typical SSA ~50 course.

Without a doubt. The required skill level also discriminates against the vandals and thieves too. Far fewer chuckers are present on the harder courses. The 'average' bolf course is all par 4, with a few 3s and 5s. Disc golf is almost exclusively 3s, with very few 4s and 5s. If disc courses were mainly par 4, and required more skill, you'd weed out some of the more casual and often disrespectful players (be those casual noobs or veterans). Only the dedicated and driven players will go and enjoy 'suffering' through a 3-4hr round at an extremely difficult course that demands all kids of shot selection and placement, as well as offering sever punishment.

However, I am very much an advocate for multiple tee design on courses such that Gold level through Red/Purple level players can enjoy the same amazing course (amazing typically referrin to terrain, seclusion, natural beauty, uniqueness, etc).
 
However, the idea of "If you're in a B-Tier or lower event, no one's there to watch you anyway, it doesn't matter what you look like." is a ridiculous way to look at the sport. That's the kind of passive attitude that will prevent said B-tiers from growing into something bigger and better.

It's not a passive attitude, it's an observation of the current state of the sport. Read my second post for the "non-passive" way to expand your B-Tier event. Collard shirts are not the answer.
 
welcome to the site, and nice long well written post.

in regards to TD's, it isn't very easy for them to be extremely strict. i do see and understand your point, but TD's put in a ton of work, make little money if any on a tourney and are friends with the people playing in an event. this is a hobby for 99.9% of people that play. the most important thing is to have fun.

I have a ton of respect for any TD and I definitely understand the amount of work that is put in. It is because of this that I show respect and keep quiet during player's meetings. It is because of this, that I think they need to step it up, and for a few minutes, forget that their friends are there. A PDGA sanctioned event isn't a 'hobby'. Running a small league or tags or playing a rec round is a hobby.

Ask the touring pros if they consider disc golf or the events they play in as a hobby. Just saying guys, if everyone takes it more seriously on the days where it matters, it could help.
 
The sport and culture has grown steadily over the past 25 years. Let's not be in a hurry to compromise the sport's integrity/character for money. We may not like the way it ends up.
 
Maybe this thread should be retitled what is keeping professional disc golf back.

And for those of us who aren't who are never going to be professionals at disc golf, I feel the only appropriate answer is "who the [insert your favorite profanity here] cares?"

I really don't understand all this fascination with some of you talking about disc golf going to "blow up big time" and making references to things that seem only to be beneficial to an elite few. I don't see much in your "big time" that is of any gain to the everyday player. More courses you say? Already happening. I started playing a mere eight years ago and the number of courses available has tripled since then. Meanwhile our supposed big brother sport has actually been in a state of retraction at the recreational level for much of the past decade with a lot of courses being closed down.

I do know one thing. I took up this sport to participate in it, to actually go out and play it regularly, to learn its nuances hands on, to enjoy it with friends, or by myself. For competition, for exercise, for recreation. I did not take it up to idolize those who could do it better than me from behind a yellow gallery rope, or staring at a television at Hooters while a perky 38DD college coed brings me another draft of whatever beer is the official sponsor of the PDGA tour, while watching the USDGC.

That might be some of your guys' fantasy, but as far as I'm concerned, "f--- that s---". The day disc golf becomes that, I'm gonna go out to a field, put all my DG equipment in a pile, pour gasoline over it and set a match to it.
 
Nothing is holding disc golf back. Its growing by leaps and bounds. More and more companies getting involved. New courses everywhere. More tourneys with ever bigger purses. People who think the sport is being held back are:
1. way too impatient, or
2. blind to what's going on around them, or
3. both

Thanks for trying to prove a point by inserting Bob Marley lyrics into your post. Good work dude. That's deep.

Maybe I am impatient. The sport has been around for 40 years and we still can't get past the general perception of the public that disc golf is a hobby for lazy pot-smoking hippies. Worse yet, after 40 years of growth, 90% of people still have never heard of it.
 
According to the 5 groups waiting to tee off at Hole one in HB last weekend and the 3 groups at each consecutive tee, nothing is holding it back.
 
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