Where does all the am money go in tournments

[pmorgan1214]

This will go well.

i will go back to this quote right here. this thread is a touchy subject in the disc golf world. :|

 

[JC17393]

I read this entire thread, and while I'm no expert, and haven't played a disc golf tournament in 14+ years, I keep thinking about the store analogy. I think the expectation of leaving the tournament with a "return on your investment" is weird. When you enter a tournament you pay a fee for the opportunity to play an event that is organized and promoted by someone else and to gauge your skill against the skill of other players. That is the expectation. If you're upset about paying a $60 entry fee and finishing out of the money and not going home with anything, then you should just go shopping. Go buy a couple of discs that you know you want and play alone or with your buddies on another course. It's really that simple.

I hope you're not reading my post as advocating that players should without question be getting "return on their investment" in the form of boatloads of merch. That's not really my point. My point is more to ask why disc golf tournaments should be viewed differently than any other endeavor that costs money whether it's shopping or recreation or entertainment or whatever.

To me the bottom line is do you, as an individual, feel like it's money well spent? If so, good for you, enjoy yourself. If not, then don't spend your money on it. That should hold true regardless of the price and whether the event is trophy only, players pack oriented, prize payout oriented, or some combination there of. I don't see how knowing what the TD's expenditures and profits are would factor into that equation. If you pay $15 for a tournament entry and get a player pack disc that retails for $15, it shouldn't matter whether the TD paid retail price for it, wholesale price for it, or it was donated for free.

 

[shakatak]

i will go back to this quote right here. this thread is a touchy subject in the disc golf world. :|

Hahahahah, I guess so. It brought me into my first lengthy "argument" on dgcr after being on here for 3 years or so.

 

[Curtis_Valk]

depending on the disc but it is an added bonus and you get the experiance of a tournament while picking up some plastic. Also if you lets say are an amature intermediate player and you throw your best round ever you might be able to pick up some more plastic by placing.

I agree with you 100% in the context of an "added bonus". However I disagree with other's previous posts in a "make or break" context.

It's just an opinion though, I'm as lacking in concrete facts as some on the other side of the argument. I only know what applies to myself and recognize that everyone does not arrive at the same conclusion (unlike shakatak who seems so certain what others think).

 

[pmorgan1214]

I agree with you 100% in the context of an "added bonus". However I disagree with other's previous posts in a "make or break" context.

It's just an opinion though, I'm as lacking in concrete facts as some on the other side of the argument. I only know what applies to myself and recognize that everyone does not arrive at the same conclusion (unlike shakatak who seems so certain what others think).

i am willing to go to a tournament since i am still new to the disc golf world. 2.6 years is added to when i really first started playing. i have been playing hardcore for about 1 year. so i am willing to spend 30 bucks to get the experiance even if i dont place. you have to start somewhere.

 

[shakatak]

I agree with you 100% in the context of an "added bonus". However I disagree with other's previous posts in a "make or break" context.

It's just an opinion though, I'm as lacking in concrete facts as some on the other side of the argument. I only know what applies to myself and recognize that everyone does not arrive at the same conclusion (unlike shakatak who seems so certain what others think).

I agree, no one knows definitively what would happen. Go ahead and add "I think" to all of my posts if it makes you feel better.

 

[Curtis_Valk]

I agree, no one knows definitively what would happen. Go ahead and add "I think" to all of my posts if it makes you feel better.

LOL, fair enough.

 

[shakatak]

LOL, fair enough.

:clap:

 

[gregorvn]

I think we should be more concerned about the quality of the participants than the quantity. I'd rather compete against 20 guys that are there because they love the sport, love competition, know the rules, etc. than against half a field that paid in because they wanted a shirt and a disc.

I agree. It seems that the focus often seems to be "how can we get more people to play tournaments?" instead of "how can we get our tournaments to be better?" In my area, casual players are encouraged to play tournaments, but when they do, it can be frustrating for those that care about good competition. Then tension builds between the casuals and the competitive players who want to follow rules and etiquette (see the current "rules nazi" thread). Perhaps we should let casual players remain casual and not encourage them to step up to tournament play.

If I run any more tournaments, I want to focus on the quality of the tournament, and I'm not defining quality as being huge payouts, which is about where this thread started: there is too much concern for payouts and where everyone's money goes.

 

[BirdieMachine]

Coming from paying 75-200 dollars to play some Amateur ball golf tourneys I see the disc golf tourneys extremely cheap. They don't give you golf balls or clubs or other free merch unless you finish high up in the tourney. Nearly all the money goes to the TD/ Organizing association. The State Am for instance has about 600 entries and pays something like top 15 (you must qualify first). It's amazing how nice the Disc golf payouts can be if you add in all the merch.

 

[DavidSauls]

Because they won't? Do you really need a specific reason? The people who think that disc golfers, who have either been given a players pack or had a chance at winning merchandise in past tournaments, will all of a sudden decide that they will pay to play a tournament with neither are delusional.

I've played in plenty of tournaments with minimal players packs---say, a tee-shirt---and no prizes other than trophies, that filled. I don't think it's a big leap to doing away with the tee-shirt, if the entry price is right.

I'm not one saying that tournaments should all go no-payout, trophy-only, out of any moral or philosophical principle. I think tournaments should do what players most enjoy.

 

[shakatak]

I'm not one saying that tournaments should all go no-payout, trophy-only, out of any moral or philosophical principle. I think tournaments should do what players most enjoy.

I agree completely

 

[Hampstead]

After playing Am for a few years and winning more plastic than I needed (especially after picking over the remains for anything even remotely resembling a disc that I might throw) I decided to move up to Open. My player rating is in the netherworld where i could play either way but I got tired of winning plastic that I don't throw and am not motivated to hustle in the parking lot to try and sell it. Had more events been trophy only I may have stayed Am longer. I might be in the minority, but I think trophies are pretty cool. Yet another domey metal flake Destroyer? Not so much. Player's packs are a nice bonus but hardly a main motivator when deciding which tourneys to play.

 

[The Hammer]

After playing Am for a few years and winning more plastic than I needed (especially after picking over the remains for anything even remotely resembling a disc that I might throw) I decided to move up to Open. My player rating is in the netherworld where i could play either way but I got tired of winning plastic that I don't throw and am not motivated to hustle in the parking lot to try and sell it. Had more events been trophy only I may have stayed Am longer. I might be in the minority, but I think trophies are pretty cool. Yet another domey metal flake Destroyer? Not so much. Player's packs are a nice bonus but hardly a main motivator when deciding which tourneys to play.

I'm in the exact same boat. Tired of winning plastic that I'll never use.

 

[riltim]

Not knowing where the money goes is the main reason I won't play events other than charity or course fundraisers. I'm not comfortable with someone making a buck off of others volunteer work.

 

[Royal Hill]

I agree. It seems that the focus often seems to be "how can we get more people to play tournaments?" instead of "how can we get our tournaments to be better?" In my area, casual players are encouraged to play tournaments, but when they do, it can be frustrating for those that care about good competition. Then tension builds between the casuals and the competitive players who want to follow rules and etiquette (see the current "rules nazi" thread). Perhaps we should let casual players remain casual and not encourage them to step up to tournament play.

If I run any more tournaments, I want to focus on the quality of the tournament, and I'm not defining quality as being huge payouts, which is about where this thread started: there is too much concern for payouts and where everyone's money goes.

You mention many areas having a focus on getting more players to play events. However, it should read "a focus on getting more players, who are just like me!, to play events"

That is where the BIG assumptions take place - that motivators for participation in events for those who are not currently attending is the same as for those who already are.

IF, your main drive is "getting stuff", "earning your money back" and/or ascending to 1000 rated plus - then you'd already be at events.

A great avenue for growth in participation is casting a wider net - to draw all those in who are (or could) be motivated by something else
(recognition,sense of community, service,experience, etc..)

now, this definitely fits into the direction you are thinking, since a "quality" event may hit on some of those motivators. It could be the service, atmosphere, promotional hype, fun, cleanliness, family friendly, whatever!

 

[JC17393]

Not knowing where the money goes is the main reason I won't play events other than charity or course fundraisers. I'm not comfortable with someone making a buck off of others volunteer work.

What if the person/persons making the buck is the one doing a bunch of the volunteer work?

 

[riltim]

What if the person/persons making the buck is the one doing a bunch of the volunteer work?

I can accept that.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

I hope you're not reading my post as advocating that players should without question be getting "return on their investment" in the form of boatloads of merch. That's not really my point. My point is more to ask why disc golf tournaments should be viewed differently than any other endeavor that costs money whether it's shopping or recreation or entertainment or whatever.

To me the bottom line is do you, as an individual, feel like it's money well spent? If so, good for you, enjoy yourself. If not, then don't spend your money on it. That should hold true regardless of the price and whether the event is trophy only, players pack oriented, prize payout oriented, or some combination there of. I don't see how knowing what the TD's expenditures and profits are would factor into that equation. If you pay $15 for a tournament entry and get a player pack disc that retails for $15, it shouldn't matter whether the TD paid retail price for it, wholesale price for it, or it was donated for free.

I agree with you. I'm talking more about the mindset that some people feel they are entitled to getting "stuff" to take home with them just for paying the fee to enter the tournament.

 

[jrawk]

Let me ask a new question... Standard payout depth is 45% of the field. So if AM1 has 20 people 9 are getting payouts. How do you all feel about that? To deep, not deep at all?

My personal opinion is that it's too deep. 30% would be better. (top 6 in a field of 20)