Questions about Tiers

[CTRobuck]

I played in my first event earlier this summer out in Nacogdoches. I believe it said it was a B Tier event.

Anyways at the suggestions of friends I played played in the Intermediate group, and actually did pretty good. Tied for 3rd out of about 30 players. I am still a relative newbie when it comes to tournaments and know that I can't hang with the Big Boys, but I still am not understanding what a A, B or even C tier event is???

I understand Flighting when it comes to ball Golf tourneys, and I am guessing that the Int., Rec and etc. is the equivalent to Flighting, but can some one explain "Tiers" to as related to me deciding to enter an event???

Thanks in advance

 

[billnchristy]

It's all about how much money is put into and taken out of the tournament.

You can consider it (loosely and not 100% correctly) like this:

C tier- local tournament
B tier- state tournament (draws more players from the area)
A tier- regional tournament (more likely a big purse, will draw people from 8hrs or more away)
Major- national tournament (A-tier still) draws from all over the nation

 

[pchitti]

The tiers refer to the size of a tourney. More or less they discern between the requirements of the tourney.

Here is a link with a lot of info for the tiers. Scroll down a page for the actual table.

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/TourStandards.pdf

 

[CTRobuck]

Much appreciated, I didn't understand if it had anything to do with Talent or not. So I am guessing there will be divisions, for skill levels, at just about all events then.

That's awesomeness!!!!

 

[pchitti]

No prob, I just found that link and it has almost all the info I look for... Thanks for asking the question!!

 

[GT Chris]

Much appreciated, I didn't understand if it had anything to do with Talent or not. So I am guessing there will be divisions, for skill levels, at just about all events then.

That's awesomeness!!!!

Correct. Tier has no explicit connection to divisions offered.

Now if you want some lively debate, there is some sentiment that Majors and other A-tiers should exclude Novice and/or Recreational divisions. opcorn:

 

[Brall]

Now if you want some lively debate, there is some sentiment that Majors and other A-tiers should exclude Novice and/or Recreational divisions. opcorn:

 

[CTRobuck]

In a sport that needs all the recognition and exposure it can get, why would you want to limit the amount of players that can enter.

a) It'll take away from the growth
b) It'll take away from the financials
c) It'll make beginners feel unwelcome

all of this is IMHO of course

I've seen this happen in other sports, i.e. Ball Golf A LOT!!!!

 

[billnchristy]

Because the whiny "pro" entitlement party just wants you to give them your money.

*took bait

 

[patdb23]

My first pdga event did not have Rec, Nov, or Int, and somehow I find the kahunas to play in Adv after only playing recreational disc golf for a year.

btw, it was the 2009 Memorial in AZ, (NT/A-tier). I knew the prestige of this event and the high demand to get in, so yeah it didn't matter to me that I had to play at the highest AM level. So I agree, A-tier & Majors should not have a full division field, unless it has the capacity to do so. C tiers are great for lower divisions and beginners.

 

[bradharris]

In a sport that needs all the recognition and exposure it can get, why would you want to limit the amount of players that can enter.

a) It'll take away from the growth
b) It'll take away from the financials
c) It'll make beginners feel unwelcome

all of this is IMHO of course

I've seen this happen in other sports, i.e. Ball Golf A LOT!!!!

There are two conflicting ideas here. On the one hand, if you want to grow participation in the sport, encouraging novice and rec divisions is the way to go. However, this takes away from the idea of a true National Tour or Major.

If you want to grow the "spectacle" of disc golf by showcasing pros in a media friendly event, you need to have only the best players playing while the Ams fill the gallery to watch, learn, and put eyes on ads.

 

[patdb23]

My first year playing in PDGA I always felt that C-tiers were the welcoming format for new players. As I gained experience in events, I would look at B-tiers as a step up, not just in terms of better players package or more payout, but also a sizeable and competitive playing field. A-tiers seemed very intimidating, and I looked at them to draw the best of the best in the region to compete.

I played recreational disc golf and local monthly events for over a year before I felt confident that I could play at a level to compete in PDGA tournaments and thus I bypassed Novice and Recreational. Personally I think one of these divisions should be removed alltogether. I think there should be some skillsets developed before entering a PDGA event, and the best way is to practice out on the course, play local events, weekly double leagues, monthly events, learn PDGA rules, etiquette, courtesy and then step up to play PDGA events, IMO.

 

[scarpfish]

In a sport that needs all the recognition and exposure it can get, why would you want to limit the amount of players that can enter.

a) It'll take away from the growth
b) It'll take away from the financials
c) It'll make beginners feel unwelcome

If the tournament can exclude lower divisions and still fill to its capacity, there is no reason the TD should offer those divisions. Higher divisions have higher entry fees, and that means more money going into the purse and more merchandise being turned over. That's how the bills get paid.

There is also no hard rule against players with rec/novice ratings playing in high tier tournament without a recreational division (unless they aren't PDGA members). They will simply have to play intermediate, or in some cases advanced when intermediate isn't offered.

For what its worth, the whole "beginners feel unwelcome" thing is really a moot point because in most cases the entry fees at A-tiers chase most rec/novice players off, even when a recreational division is offered. Most of those guys don't want to pay $50-60 for a weekend of golf.

At the Glass Blown Open in 2010 there were 270 spots available, and a recreational division offered. They filled them all, but only 13 of them were rec players. In fact, I believe we had more women than rec players which is not the norm at lower tier events.

This year they had 360 spots available and decided to get rid of the recreational division. Some were unhappy, but many of those who played rec last year, simply played intermediate this year. All of the Am pools still filled up.

The fact is that B and C tiers are simply more suitable for that type of player, with a somewhat more casual environment, cheaper entry fees, and no overnight stay required.

 

[Cgkdisc]

It would be smarter to eliminate the older pro divisions than eliminate the rec and junior divisions if generating revenue and still filling is the goal. Just saying. Pros don't contribute anything to tournament finances.

 

[scarpfish]

Personally I think one of these divisions should be removed alltogether. I think there should be some skillsets developed before entering a PDGA event, and the best way is to practice out on the course, play local events, weekly double leagues, monthly events, learn PDGA rules, etiquette, courtesy and then step up to play PDGA events, IMO.

Not every place on the planet has those unsanctioned events available for players to get trained. Sometimes a PDGA event may be the only competition outside pickup rounds that is available. While I rarely see it offered around here, the MA4 (novice) division has been used in some locales with success.

I would also point out that in many cases, the casual atmosphere at a lot of unsanctioned events and leagues probably ingrains as many bad habits as it does good ones. Things like people drinking during play, swiping the chains instead of holing out, flipping discs instead of marking their lie properly, stepping on their mini while putting, doing practice throws, and a whole litany of things that are a no-no in a PDGA event.

 

[pchitti]

I agree with not having rec or novice in the A+ tourneys. Int is iffy but has the largest group of PDGA members.

Those tourneys should have a gallery of people but very few non players will be going to any tourney.

 

[CTRobuck]

Listen I have nothing against Pro's, in fact it'd be an honor to compete as one, one day, if my skil level ever get's to that point. Truthfully though, the advancement of the game depends on the interest of the "not so skilled". Whether or not you offer a REC or INT. division you should offer opportunities for the NON-pros to compete.

In (ball) Golf tournaments in the day or 2 leading up to an event they offer Pro/Am scrambles. Stuff like that. Chances for the non-pros to complete and even play with the Pro's. If you are a professional at anything you are in it for the money, at least on some level, so entry fees are there to make payouts. Like others have said before, the am. players entry fees goes more for course renovations and to the PDGA. We receive plastic, which is cool, but more amatuers seem to play for the love of the game than do the pro's. IMHO.

Either way completely banishing these divisions would hurt the game, i feel. But say if the day before you had a random drawing from the people coming to watch to play a scramble with a pro against another Amatuer and a Pro or even in Foursomes. I bet this would bring out bigger galleries and promote more interest.

 

[CTRobuck]

I would also point out that in many cases, the casual atmosphere at a lot of unsanctioned events and leagues probably ingrains as many bad habits as it does good ones. Things like people drinking during play, swiping the chains instead of holing out, flipping discs instead of marking their lie properly, stepping on their mini while putting, doing practice throws, and a whole litany of things that are a no-no in a PDGA event.

What better way to teach these "Novices" than to put them in real tournament situations. They don't have to play as many rounds, in fact, let theirs be 1 round while the rest sre 2, 3 or 4. You can't just cut them out because they don't have the knowledge that you or even I do (evening being an amatuer to disc) about tournament play. But we can at least teach, and I do agree about cutting out the drinking and nonsense during sanctioned play.

When and if the game gets to where it can be self sustained then we need to start having different events for am's and pro's. Yoou have to grow the sport before you limit it!!!

 

[DavidSauls]

At A-tiers and below, I'm fine with letting the TDs decide. They're the ones with the skin (and calluses) in the game. Whether they want to make it Pro-only or open to everyone, it's their call.

Majors cater to specific divisions, and NTs are an attempt at a "Pro Tour" (though sometimes coupled with an amateur A-tier), so separation seems more appropriate there.

 

[Thuracine]

Do you have to be a PDGA member to play am3?

Where does the money from the am pools go?