2018 Memorial Championship

[notroman]

Ok. I'm not sure that's true. If he's getting a break but Rick throws his disc from a few inches further that whats allowed, at that point is it really worth it? I understand your point and of course he has every right to make the call. I just saw the funny irony in it was what I was laughing at and surprised no one else did.

There different thoughts to this game. Allot of people don't make calls because they are focusing on their personal play. Others are emotional players. I again think that lead, feature, heck top 3 cards should have an official making calls when needed. Let the players play.

During casual rounds I can see letting rules slide - I mean, we're just all trying to have fun. During competition, at least at PDGA sanctioned events, I feel rules should be enforced. Whether the player gets a competitive advantage or not, if someone sees a rule infraction they should call it. I understand a lot of people breaking the rules do it unintentionally, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't get called on it. I can't think of any sport out there where someone breaks a rule and it's okay for everyone to just look the other way because "they didn't mean it" or "they didn't get a competitive advantage".

That being said, I can see the difficulty in monitoring/enforcing these rules as a player when you're trying to keep your mind in your own game. I agree that having an official actually making these calls would be way more ideal. I'm not sure where the TDs can find volunteers right now that know enough about the rules of the sport to make such calls that also aren't playing at the event already. I'm sure this topic has been discussed and I'm curious to hear all ideas that people bounced around.

As for Rick's infraction yesterday, he was not "a few inches further than what's allowed". He more than doubled the allowed distance from the mini, and it was clearly giving him a competitive advantage. He had a tree in his face that clearly proved to be an obstacle since he took so much time to decide how to throw his second shot when usually he's a very fast player. Planting that far back from the mini gave him a much better angle at approaching the green. When you're that close to an obstacle even a few inches makes a difference. When Nikko approached him to call the foot fault Ricky's foot was STILL nowhere near his mini and this is after he already took a step towards it. I am fairly confident that Ricky at that point knew that he foot faulted, but he wasn't about to second the call himself when it's an automatic stroke penalty with the new rules. I feel because of the harsher punishment for foot faults with the new rules we may see more of this happening this year.

 

[Halcón]

There's plenty of times where you're at a bad angle, in the woods, far away, etc.

Doesn't get much more clear than this:

801.02 Enforcement

Last updated: Friday, December 1, 2017 - 10:34

A.Players are assigned to play holes together in a group for the purpose of verifying scores and ensuring play in accordance with the rules. Any determination made by the group as a whole is to be made by a majority of the group.
B.Players are expected to call a violation when one has clearly occurred. A call must be made promptly to be enforceable (except for misplays).

 

[shakatak]

Doesn't get much more clear than this:

Yes, I looked up the rule after it was pointed out. I still say it doesn't happen on every single shot. How many tap-ins do you see where 2 or more other players in the group have their backs completely turned walking away?

 

[XC_Eddy]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&t=3h50m23s&v=tRe4drECR6M

Nikko used maturity!
It's super effective!

 

[JC17393]

I'll admit I wasn't aware of this rule but I find it hard to believe that every player watches closely on every shot of every single other player during a round. There's plenty of times where you're at a bad angle, in the woods, far away, etc.

Just because players don't do it, doesn't mean they're not obligated to. This game is rife with people who are, at best, lackadaisical with their rules following, let alone enforcement.

The rule is a part of the Courtesy rules, so violating it is subject to courtesy warnings and penalties. Nikko would have been within his rights to warn both KJ and JohnE for failing to watch other members of the group.

812 Courtesy
B. A player must:
....
2. Watch the other members of the group throw in order to ensure rules compliance and to help find discs.
C. A player receives a warning for the first violation of any courtesy rule. Each subsequent violation of any courtesy rule by that player in the same round incurs one penalty throw...

 

[@iDiscGolf]

During casual rounds I can see letting rules slide - I mean, we're just all trying to have fun. During competition, at least at PDGA sanctioned events, I feel rules should be enforced. Whether the player gets a competitive advantage or not, if someone sees a rule infraction they should call it. I understand a lot of people breaking the rules do it unintentionally, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't get called on it. I can't think of any sport out there where someone breaks a rule and it's okay for everyone to just look the other way because "they didn't mean it" or "they didn't get a competitive advantage".

That being said, I can see the difficulty in monitoring/enforcing these rules as a player when you're trying to keep your mind in your own game. I agree that having an official actually making these calls would be way more ideal. I'm not sure where the TDs can find volunteers right now that know enough about the rules of the sport to make such calls that also aren't playing at the event already. I'm sure this topic has been discussed and I'm curious to hear all ideas that people bounced around.

As for Rick's infraction yesterday, he was not "a few inches further than what's allowed". He more than doubled the allowed distance from the mini, and it was clearly giving him a competitive advantage. He had a tree in his face that clearly proved to be an obstacle since he took so much time to decide how to throw his second shot when usually he's a very fast player. Planting that far back from the mini gave him a much better angle at approaching the green. When you're that close to an obstacle even a few inches makes a difference. When Nikko approached him to call the foot fault Ricky's foot was STILL nowhere near his mini and this is after he already took a step towards it. I am fairly confident that Ricky at that point knew that he foot faulted, but he wasn't about to second the call himself when it's an automatic stroke penalty with the new rules. I feel because of the harsher punishment for foot faults with the new rules we may see more of this happening this year.

I agree with most all of that.

My original point was that it's funny that he is getting all this enthusiasm for needing to make calls when he himself is in violation every throw. That is all.

 

[Steve West]

...
That being said, I can see the difficulty in monitoring/enforcing these rules as a player when you're trying to keep your mind in your own game. ...

Enforcing rules IS part of your own game. No less so than throwing the disc.

 

[notroman]

Enforcing rules IS part of your own game. No less so than throwing the disc.

It is, but I feel it's part of the rules because nobody else is there to do it. If they had the resources to have marshals following the cards I'm sure they would rather do that.

 

[F. Howl]

Gotta love these Jomez announcers. The baskets aren't Innova so therefore any "spit outs" are clearly the fault of the basket.

WE GET IT...we know you're sponsored by Innova mmmkay?

Are you referring to Koling calling Turner's putt an "X-Out"? That putt was a bit off center.
https://youtu.be/eAvnAfkwYvE?t=20m8s

Koling was bitching about X's on one of Eagle's Vlogs after a round at St. Jude. Wysocki was kind of rolling his eyes, saying "no you didn't spit though a Mach X", but finally ceded the point, seemingly to shut him up, saying, "Fine. Congratulations. You had a spit out."

I've heard BigSexy say something along the lines of "you hate to see it, but sometimes it happens" when Discatchers spit. Sexton didn't have anything to say about it after this one:
https://youtu.be/8HC6CZJ7nP4?t=21m1s

 

[notroman]

I'm sure these guys want to complain about the Innova basket spitouts as much as the other spitouts, they probably just can't do it because they're sponsored by Innova.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Are you referring to Koling calling Turner's putt an "X-Out"? That putt was a bit off center.
https://youtu.be/eAvnAfkwYvE?t=20m8s

Koling was bitching about X's on one of Eagle's Vlogs after a round at St. Jude. Wysocki was kind of rolling his eyes, saying "no you didn't spit though a Mach X", but finally ceded the point, seemingly to shut him up, saying, "Fine. Congratulations. You had a spit out."

I've heard BigSexy say something along the lines of "you hate to see it, but sometimes it happens" when Discatchers spit. Sexton didn't have anything to say about it after this one:
https://youtu.be/8HC6CZJ7nP4?t=21m1s

Yes. That one. Thoroughly and utterly unprofessional to call out the event sponsors basket like that especially when you're sponsored by the main competition. Plus, if your a pro, you've been doing oodles of practices rounds so you ought to be intimately familiar with the characteristics of these baskets and make the proper adjustments. Not every basket is just like a Discatcher and to expect all brands to catch all exactly the same is a little unreasonable.

 

[davetherocketguy]

I'm sure these guys want to complain about the Innova basket spitouts as much as the other spitouts, they probably just can't do it because they're sponsored by Innova.

Maybe, maybe not. I just don't understand what there is to complain about in the first place. Spit outs happen. That's life. Sporting equipment isn't perfect, never has been never will be. Probably every sport there is equipment deficiencies exist and affect the respective game.

 

[notroman]

Maybe, maybe not. I just don't understand what there is to complain about in the first place. Spit outs happen. That's life. Sporting equipment isn't perfect, never has been never will be. Probably every sport there is equipment deficiencies exist and affect the respective game.

This is true, but we've all been there in the moment when you feel we've made a great putt and it spit out on us. Even though you can accept that it happens, depending on the situation it can be a heartbreaking experience. I think the commentary is just trying to be empathetic to the players and perhaps bring out some emotion for the viewers.

 

[davetherocketguy]

This is true, but we've all been there in the moment when you feel we've made a great putt and it spit out on us. Even though you can accept that it happens, depending on the situation it can be a heartbreaking experience. I think the commentary is just trying to be empathetic to the players and perhaps bring out some emotion for the viewers.

Oh yeah I get that they're just trying to be empathetic and I am fine with that. But when you call it an "X-out" it sounds to me like they are taking a dig at Discraft.

 

[VictorB]

In terms of any basket - some good putts don't stick, some bad putts do. We just always remember and call out the good ones that don't stick because they cost a stroke.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

Oh yeah I get that they're just trying to be empathetic and I am fine with that. But when you call it an "X-out" it sounds to me like they are taking a dig at Discraft.

I think you're reading too much into it. They also referred to another one as an X-in when it pulled in a weak side putt. Every basket has unique characteristics and to expect them to not mention those things seems a little silly.

 

[Steve West]

It is, but I feel it's part of the rules because nobody else is there to do it. If they had the resources to have marshals following the cards I'm sure they would rather do that.

What we have, even if not perfect, is far better than having some sort of referee. (And, it's bound to get better now that the bright light of on-line video is shining down.)

I think if we were to abandon self- and group- enforcement the game would change for the uglier. It would no longer be the player's job to follow the rules, it would be the marshal's job to catch players breaking the rules. There would be many times as many infractions. When faced with a bad lie the smart thing to do would be to throw from a good lie when the marshal wasn't looking.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I think you're reading too much into it. They also referred to another one as an X-in when it pulled in a weak side putt. Every basket has unique characteristics and to expect them to not mention those things seems a little silly.

I agree, seems like a reach to chastise them for this. The thing that sticks out to me though, is that Koling's comments about courses are always related to how unlucky he got.

Also, you can pretty much tell when Jerm is about to hit a putt, because he will overstate how difficult his lie for his putt is.

Furthermore the disc golf courses are not conspiring against Big Jerm (as much as I wouldn't mind if they did). On hole 17 he goes on and on about how skippy this hole is supposed to be, even though throughout the round he's commented on how grabby the course was playing. I knew before he even threw that he wasn't going to have a good shot based on his whiney comments about how the hole wasn't getting the skips it should. He threw it waaaay too wide and he actually did get a bit of skip, as Sexton pointed out, but he took no fault for throwing it about 50 foot to wide.

 

[Steve West]

When Nikko walked up to him he was still outside the lie, imo. Even if it wasn't on purpose he should have looked down and been like yea I was too far back and called the second himself.

Let's not gloss over the fact that Ricky should not have violated the rule in the first place.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

Let's not gloss over the fact that Ricky should not have violated the rule in the first place.

He's thrown thousands of forehands and he doesn't take a huge runup ever. The only way he pulls up THAT short, is intentionally. It gave him a better angle to get around that tree, there's no question.