2018 Memorial Championship

[Flick Maniac]

My thoughts exactly Brutus. I mean, on a forehand approach shot, how much "run up" do you really need, you should be able to land your front foot right where you need it to (as opposed to a full x-step backhand for example). And taking that step forward to retrieve the mini, that would be all the evidence you need.

But hey thats how the game is played. Call, no second, move on. Sigh.

 

[Halcón]

Nikko catching flak for the call, and the group not backing him up, are far worse than the actual fault.

 

[bnbanbury]

About the foot fault call, did Wysocki gain any advantage by putting his foot too far behind his mini ?

I know that's not mentionned in the rule book, but I think that's the way everyone should be thinking. I'd be seriously pissed to be called on a foot fault on a drive if I didn't gain any advantage on it.
If it's on a falling putt or a bad jump putt, I'd understand it. By the way, Nikko's straddle putt isn't always perpendicular to the basket...

Just some usual Nikko. At that time, he wasn't playing great and started to check everyone's stance

Your attitude is why it's so hard to make calls on your fellow card mates in this game. If you break the rules and someone calls you on it you'd be "seriously pissed", and that's exactly why nobody makes calls. You try and do the right thing and then people get pissed even though THEY are the ones at fault and then the rest of the round sucks and is uncomfortable.

Nikko was right to make the call and Ricky may very well have been taking more space to get a better angle to the pin. Either way players get an advantage by not having to pay attention to their stance and being able to focus solely on the target.

 

[JC17393]

About the foot fault call, did Wysocki gain any advantage by putting his foot too far behind his mini ?

I know that's not mentionned in the rule book, but I think that's the way everyone should be thinking. I'd be seriously pissed to be called on a foot fault on a drive if I didn't gain any advantage on it.
If it's on a falling putt or a bad jump putt, I'd understand it. By the way, Nikko's straddle putt isn't always perpendicular to the basket...

Just some usual Nikko. At that time, he wasn't playing great and started to check everyone's stance

I hate this argument. "He didn't 'gain an advantage' so who cares?" You gain an advantage, intentional or not, every time you break a rule.

Simply by not concentrating on his footwork, Ricky is taking an advantage over players who do concentrate on proper footwork/placement. If you think otherwise, I challenge you to go out and throw 10-15 shots without thought of hitting a mark, then repeat it while focusing on hitting a mark and tell me there's no difference in how those throws are executed.

As to your comment about Nikko's straddle stance...you understand that he doesn't have to be "perpendicular" to the basket to be legal, right? There is no mention of "perpendicular" in the stance rules. The rule only states that no supporting point can be closer to the target than the rear edge of the marker...that defines an arc, not a perpendicular line.

 

[bhadella]

I guess that McBeth guy must still have it.

 

[chosenmatrix]

Paul McBeth once said that he would never call Nikko for a time violation, because the more time Nikko takes on a putt, the more likely he is to miss the shot.

This is so savage... if you were Nikko and heard this, how would you not think about it when you were putting?

It reminds me of a joke a couple of us have. When we want to mess with someone, we casually ask what they do with their off-hand when they putt. It is something I never think about, but once you hear it, it is all you can think about when you are lining up a putt. Hilarity ensues.

 

[robdeforge]

When we want to mess with someone, we casually ask what they do with their off-hand when they putt. It is something I never think about, but once you hear it, it is all you can think about when you are lining up a putt. Hilarity ensues.

and this is exactly why I putt with something (usually a second putter) in my off hand

 

[SD86]

One other point about Ricky's foot fault: remember last year that he and Paul McBeth had a spirited "philosophical discussion" about Rickly's (and aoother player's) unmarked disc. If memory serves me correctly, the gist of the debate, per people at the scene, was that Paul thought Ricky should've self-called a penalty, though it would just have been a warning with no actual penalty, and Ricky was basically telling Paul to mind his own business. There have been other rules squabbles between Paul and Ricky, though I can't remember the actual examples right now (getting old svcks).

Point being: Nikko called the foot fault... but Ricky did not self-confirm. IMHO Paul McBeth would have self-confirmed; he's a stickler for the rules and has self-called penalties upon himself before. But Ricky did not, and so sorry to say, I am not surprised by that.

 

[Flick Maniac]

I find it interesting that post-round penalties can be added even way after handing in the score card (remember the time that Paul self-confessed that he had plaid a hole incorrectly and took the penalty) but FF calls must be made immediately and seconded or in essence they never happened.

 

[bnbanbury]

One other point about Ricky's foot fault: remember last year that he and Paul McBeth had a spirited "philosophical discussion" about Rickly's (and aoother player's) unmarked disc. If memory serves me correctly, the gist of the debate, per people at the scene, was that Paul thought Ricky should've self-called a penalty, though it would just have been a warning with no actual penalty, and Ricky was basically telling Paul to mind his own business. There have been other rules squabbles between Paul and Ricky, though I can't remember the actual examples right now (getting old svcks).

Point being: Nikko called the foot fault... but Ricky did not self-confirm. IMHO Paul McBeth would have self-confirmed; he's a stickler for the rules and has self-called penalties upon himself before. But Ricky did not, and so sorry to say, I am not surprised by that.

I don't disagree with anything in the spirit of your post, I just want to make mention of the fact that last year you could not call a penalty on yourself.

 

[bnbanbury]

I find it interesting that post-round penalties can be added even way after handing in the score card (remember the time that Paul self-confessed that he had plaid a hole incorrectly and took the penalty) but FF calls must be made immediately and seconded or in essence they never happened.

Playing a hole incorrectly is something that is black an white and does not become colored by video evidence after the fact. It makes perfect sense to me that a call like a foot fault needs to be made in real time.

 

[SD86]

I don't disagree with anything in the spirit of your post, I just want to make mention of the fact that last year you could not call a penalty on yourself.

Couldn't call a foot-fault on oneself (I learned that last year after another Ricky situation), but this wasn't a foot fault situation... it was about the unmarked discs, and from what I recall, Ricky could've reported himself to a course marshal (or whatever they call them)... and Paul was saying that Ricky should've done so. Anyhoo, I think the point stands out about Ricky and the rules...

 

[bnbanbury]

Couldn't call a foot-fault on oneself (I learned that last year after another Ricky situation), but this wasn't a foot fault situation... it was about the unmarked discs, and from what I recall, Ricky could've reported himself to a course marshal (or whatever they call them)... and Paul was saying that Ricky should've done so. Anyhoo, I think the point stands out about Ricky and the rules...

You're correct, I forgot that was only for stance violations. And i agree with your overall point as well.

 

[NegaSnapples]

Unless every single card is getting filmed, there should absolutely be no video review penalties handed out.

 

[Batmanx2008]

Hmmm well since there is clear video evidence that Ricky did foot fault......wonder if he apologized to nikko? Obviously even though Nikko was a little animated he was still right.

 

[shakatak]

I'm not sure why some people here are blaming JohnE and Nybo for not seconding. I'm sure they didn't see it. Not everyone watches everyone else's foot placement on every shot.

 

[robdeforge]

One other point about Ricky's foot fault: remember last year that he and Paul McBeth had a spirited "philosophical discussion" about Rickly's (and aoother player's) unmarked disc. If memory serves me correctly, the gist of the debate, per people at the scene, was that Paul thought Ricky should've self-called a penalty, though it would just have been a warning with no actual penalty, and Ricky was basically telling Paul to mind his own business...

I think it's a little different from what you remember/are describing.

After Wysocki and Devan Owens threw similar-colored drivers to similar landing spots on Hole 9, both players had to examine their discs for distinguishable marks to determine who owned each lie. McBeth said he heard Owens say that his disc was unmarked, and McBeth alerted a PDGA rules marshal to determine if a warning for using an unmarked disc would need to be issued...

McBeth was not satisfied with the marshal deeming that no warning was needed, despite the fact that Owens had volunteered that his disc was unmarked...

The marshal on the course at the time called it a "non-issue" and said that Owens' disc was indeed marked. Wysocki and McBeth exchanged some heated words, and after the round Wysocki said that he took umbrage with McBeth raising the issue...

"It was a joke, I didn't even want to get involved with it," Wysocki said. "I don't care, just the way Paul handled it – I just don't like the way he handles stuff, he does that kind of crap all the time and it's annoying."

"There's a fine line between really focusing on it, and I think he was looking for it," Wysocki said. "Obviously you have to enforce the rules, and I understand that. But that type of thing – first of all, it's not even a stroke [penalty], it's just a warning. So that doesn't even matter."

https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2016/08/12/wysocki-sets-course-record-extends-worlds-lead/

I'm a little confused about it all.... Owens himself says his disc is unmarked (supposedly), McBeth hears this and alerts marshal (don't blame him for that), marshal says disc actually is indeed marked. No mention of if Ricky's disc was unmarked, or if Paul was asking the marshal to look at Ricky's disc too. Just that he and Owens "threw similar-colored drivers to similar landing spots on Hole 9..." and "had to examine their discs for distinguishable marks".

I'm still not really clear on what happened

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I'm not sure why some people here are blaming JohnE and Nybo for not seconding. I'm sure they didn't see it. Not everyone watches everyone else's foot placement on every shot.

Because its written in the rule book that all players must watch each other's shots in order to regulate any infractions. Because there is no officials watching and making calls, players are burdened with this.

 

[bnbanbury]

I think it's a little different from what you remember/are describing.



I'm a little confused about it all.... Owens himself says his disc is unmarked (supposedly), McBeth hears this and alerts marshal (don't blame him for that), marshal says disc actually is indeed marked. No mention of if Ricky's disc was unmarked, or if Paul was asking the marshal to look at Ricky's disc too. Just that he and Owens "threw similar-colored drivers to similar landing spots on Hole 9..." and "had to examine their discs for distinguishable marks".

I'm still not really clear on what happened

Thanks for the info, i had not read that account. it definitely speaks to SD86's point about Ricky's attitude towards the rules.

 

[shakatak]

Because its written in the rule book that all players must watch each other's shots in order to regulate any infractions. Because there is no officials watching and making calls, players are burdened with this.

I'll admit I wasn't aware of this rule but I find it hard to believe that every player watches closely on every shot of every single other player during a round. There's plenty of times where you're at a bad angle, in the woods, far away, etc.