2022 Las Vegas Challenge Feb 24-27

[Orioles_Lefty]

If Paige wants to play the way she plays and it goes wrong more than it goes right, what's it cost her other than some wins, a higher rating, and payout money that pales in comparison to her other revenue streams?

Her style of play seems to matter a lot more to those watching the tournaments than to her.

 

[dehaas]

Best part of this weekend's footage was Gannon clenching the fist mid flight on a made putt. I know MJ does the no look mini pickup but it just doesn't compare with Gannon dropping long C2 putts and mid flight he already knows it's in.

1050 boys need to watch out, lots of others not getting paid them cash moneys with something to prove. Paulie will be ok, he knows all he has to do now is show up a couple times a year in tip top form and be ready to play.

Ricky needs to figure out his undie/sweatpant situation and get Trilogy to mold up some beefier discs. Unless maybe the undie/sweatpant situation makes discs more flippy?

Eagle the last couple years has been no doubt the upper limit for talent. Wide open Vegas course and you don't throw forehand? I get it if you're hurt…but that's a clear indicator to everybody else…gotta have both halves to your game to be a legit contender on that level. He'll get eaten alive on tighter courses with no forehand.

I get it…more money involved now so players don't have to grind as hard. I think you'll see lots of talent clawing for wins this season and the fat cats will be getting knocked on their butts when they show up.

On the FPO side, PP feels she can make that shot on 18 to make the eagle happen and win, that's why she does it. Sometimes it doesn't happen, she's willing bet on herself. Unfortunately for her Cat has made a living lately on taking those bets and coming out ahead in recent times. Euros are still wildcards, Tattar looked good at times but visibly frustrated others. Eveliina looked fairly inconsistent also and who knows what happened to Henna. I get it, travel makes things tough, it'll get tighter, but after this weekend the big winner was obviously Cat. Standings and cash aside, she by far made the biggest statement. I don't see how you could say otherwise?

 

[Flick Maniac]

It's much more elegant when you say "mullét."

Pronounced: moo·lay

Isn't hitting your own equipment a penalty? Hammes hit his disc which was laying on the green OB (from his own drive) which likely saved him from going into the bunker. Round 2. It's funny too that on the opening clip they show Ricky hitting his disc with his plant foot too. Not really big deals I guess. But we do see this fairly often.

https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/810

It is a violation if a player or their equipment interferes with the course of their own thrown disc. The throw and one penalty throw are counted in the player's score; the player continues play from the previous lie. Any other penalty throws incurred by the throw are disregarded. If a throw is interfered with by request of the thrower, that is considered the same as a player interfering with their own throw.

Looks like it ought to have been a penalty. Interesting tidbit.

It says nowhere when an OB disc must be picked up, but thats beside the point. Rule says nothing about whether equipment is there for a reason, or should have been removed.

Kicking the mini on a fairway drive is pretty much like a jump putt call. To be punishable, you would have to make a case that the person was in contact with the mini (or a thrown disc) at the time of release. With no video evidence, its pretty impossible to say whether it happened then, or a millisecond later. If somebody steps on their disc instead of just bumpig it, I would likely call it, because who the hell releases a disc with the plant foot not planted? But even so, with that logic and all, the call would have to be seconded.

FWIW the rules dont mention contact (like I recall they once did). It is included in the supporting point not being any closer to target than the rear edge of the marker disc.

Most rules discussions like this benefit from going to the current rules to double check (like I did) so that old information is not spread around from memory.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

There's a test you can run in tee time rounds to confirm higher rated players tend to depress rather than boost round ratings. I gathered this data yesterday for round 2. The columns are Score, Rating, Score, Rating, (# of players) posted after that number of MPO players had completed their rounds. You can see how the round rating for the same score continues to decline as the scores of higher and higher rated players progressively get added to the ratings calculation. I didn't track the FPO in the same way but you can see the lower rated FPO pool got higher ratings for the same score in this round, perhaps due to "tougher" weather conditions on average earlier in the day when they played.

MPO
64 974, 58 1020 (12)
64 972, 58 1019 (28)
64 971, 58 1018 (51)
64 969, 58 1016 (63)
64 963, 58 1011 (115)

FPO
64 968, 58* 1015 (60) *Catrina's score

Most players don't see this progressive ratings reduction because you have to take snapshots of the updated results every so often while you're playing. This ratings progression usually doesn't happen during round 1 because groups are mostly random skill levels other than the feature card going last. By round 2, the field has been roughly sorted into progressively higher rated cards. By round 3, the field has been sorted even more.

Chuck do you have access to rating information that we are not privy to?

I do not see any ratings listed, official or unofficial, on the PDGA website or PDGAlive.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I'd like to see some frame by frames of some of Buhr's step putts. Not passing any judgement. Just interested.

Well you are in luck. He jammed so many C2 putts over the weekend, you should have a plethora of film to look back on. You can adjust speed to 25% on youtube if you want to really slow it down as well.

 

[flatflip]

https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/810



It says nowhere when an OB disc must be picked up, but thats beside the point. Rule says nothing about whether equipment is there for a reason, or should have been removed.

Except for this one:

G. Players must not stand or leave their equipment where interference with a disc in play may occur. A player may require other players to move themselves or their equipment if either could interfere with the throw. Refusal to do so is a courtesy violation.

By this standard (the potential for a played disc laying on the ground interfering with a subsequent shot), any disc on the playing surface has the potential for interfering with a disc in play. I do not think this is the spirit of the rule.

I would not penalize the player in this situation.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Chuck do you have access to rating information that we are not privy to?

I do not see any ratings listed, official or unofficial, on the PDGA website or PDGAlive.

The round ratings are updated regularly on the PDGA Results page after every group or two completes their round. Available to everyone.

 

[Steve West]

The round ratings are updated regularly on the PDGA Results page after every group or two completes their round. Available to everyone.

Not for this event. Blankness (until a minute ago).

 

[Cgkdisc]

Not for this event. Blankness (until a minute ago).

Maybe you have to be logged in to the PDGA site to see them. Kate was able to see them on her computer over the weekend so it's not that I have any special access.

 

[glassila]

Except for this one:

G. Players must not stand or leave their equipment where interference with a disc in play may occur. A player may require other players to move themselves or their equipment if either could interfere with the throw. Refusal to do so is a courtesy violation.

By this standard (the potential for a played disc laying on the ground interfering with a subsequent shot), any disc on the playing surface has the potential for interfering with a disc in play. I do not think this is the spirit of the rule.

I would not penalize the player in this situation.

What player, round and hole is this in reference too? (I missed it if it was mentioned a ways back)

 

[Steve West]

Maybe you have to be logged in to the PDGA site to see them. Kate was able to see them on her computer over the weekend so it's not that I have any special access.

It's a mystery. All I know is I didn't get a "Show round ratings" tab for this event until this morning, but it was there for all other events.

 

[flatflip]

What player, round and hole is this in reference too? (I missed it if it was mentioned a ways back)

Hole 7 R2 Hammes.

He was on the chase card, covered by Gatekeeper.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

It's a mystery. All I know is I didn't get a "Show round ratings" tab for this event until this morning, but it was there for all other events.

Same, thought I was going crazy.

 

[glassila]

Hole 7 R2 Hammes.

He was on the chase card, covered by Gatekeeper.

In case anyone else was wondering what happened...

Hammes throws from the drop zone and hits his original disc laying on the OB golf green in front of him.

I would say that 90% of the time hitting the original disc in the OB would stop the disc and result in another OB. In this case it benefited him as it looks like his throw would have carried into a different penalty area. Instead, hitting his original disc kills the speed and his DZ throw slides off the OB golf green.

Hammes' drop zone throw starts at the 23:30 mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q25fp7T1Zw

 

[Flick Maniac]

That rule has always been a weird one. Hit your own equipment, where ever, and get penalty. Drill first available tree, bounce straight back and hit your own bag is a penalty per the rules. Who is going to call one like this?

I havent seen the situation in question, but as per the rules, he hit his own disc (equipment) and thats what the rules says in so many words.

 

[mostlynorwegian]

If Paige wants to play the way she plays and it goes wrong more than it goes right, what's it cost her other than some wins, a higher rating, and payout money that pales in comparison to her other revenue streams?

Her style of play seems to matter a lot more to those watching the tournaments than to her.

The competition over everything else people are an amusing lot, especially when the pro commentary, and general consensus when the competitive fire is low is to not beat themselves up, and to enjoy themselves, and put on a show. Re: Simon lines.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Edit. Just watched it. (Although the throw starts at 25:35 for me) The spirit of the rule certainly does not mean that. However, the way the rule is written, that ought to be a penalty. Which means the rule is likely not as well written out as it could be. Cant think of a easy fix though.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

Except for this one:

G. Players must not stand or leave their equipment where interference with a disc in play may occur. A player may require other players to move themselves or their equipment if either could interfere with the throw. Refusal to do so is a courtesy violation.

By this standard (the potential for a played disc laying on the ground interfering with a subsequent shot), any disc on the playing surface has the potential for interfering with a disc in play. I do not think this is the spirit of the rule.

I would not penalize the player in this situation.

I don't think you can penalize Hammes in this situation. Otherwise, according to the bolded section here, he could force the other players who are OB to walk allll the way up there and move their discs to prevent possible interference, which just isn't logical.

 

[Cgkdisc]

In case anyone else was wondering what happened...

Hammes throws from the drop zone and hits his original disc laying on the OB golf green in front of him.

I would say that 90% of the time hitting the original disc in the OB would stop the disc and result in another OB. In this case it benefited him as it looks like his throw would have carried into a different penalty area. Instead, hitting his original disc kills the speed and his DZ throw slides off the OB golf green.

Hammes' drop zone throw starts at the 23:30 mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q25fp7T1Zw

Should your equipment be considered "out of play" when located in an OB area (a Hazard is technically inbounds)? For example, if I placed my bag OB shouldn't that be considered sufficiently out of play and not be penalized if my next throw rolled back and hit it in OB area? I realize the rule does not state that equipment is out of play when not inbounds but isn't this implied by the definitions of inbounds and not inbounds, i.e., OB?

Note that 810 G (Interference) also allows other players to ask you to move your equipment if they feel it might result in interfering with your throw. So, another player in Adam's group could have asked him or even the spotter to remove it although if the spotter is not allowed to officially call Adam's first throw OB, doesn't his disc have to remain there until the group confirms the throw? In which case, Adam's throw from the drop zone was essentially a provisional, pending confirmation of the OB disc by the group. Of course, it was then moved by the second disc.

Seems like the proper tournament procedure in the future would either be requiring the player and someone in the group to go forward, confirm the call and retrieve the disc or allow a certified official near the disc to make the OB call and remove the disc. That would avoid confusion on making the proper call in this unusual scenario.

 

[Jimb]

Does the fact that the disc Hammes hit was OB make any difference vs hitting a disc/equipment that is IB? Maybe the OB disc wasn't considered "in play?"

Edit.. same point was just posed before mine. Never mind.